2007 NAQT High School National Championship

[Strongside]

http://www.naqt.com/hsnct/2007/hs-nct-details.html

[Zip Zap Rap Pants]

This Chicago thing is getting old.

[Byko]

Interesting to see the date shift to late May, right before Memorial Day, instead of continuing to grab the first weekend in June.

[BuzzerZen]

Chicago again?

Jeez. Maybe it being memorial day will mean I can go see the city this time, anyway.

[Irreligion in Bangladesh]

Does anyone know what NAQT does for moderators or scorekeepers at nationals, and/or who I should contact at NAQT for info?

[Tegan]

The NAQT moderators are a pretty tight group .... mostly people who have done it before. I would say just from being there the past two years, 85-95% of them are really top notch mods. About the best you can shoot for is scorekeeping and maybe moderating on Sunday during the consolation rounds.

In other words: don't pretend that you will be moderating any matches for at least several years.

[Zip Zap Rap Pants]

I don't know, last year I played in a room with a moderator who said he was new to it. He was pretty good except he forgot to clear a couple times. Then again NAQT jumped from 96 to 128 teams last year so they probably needed more moderators.

[wd4gdz]

The NAQT moderators are a pretty tight group .... mostly people who have done it before. I would say just from being there the past two years, 85-95% of them are really top notch mods. About the best you can shoot for is scorekeeping and maybe moderating on Sunday during the consolation rounds.

In other words: don't pretend that you will be moderating any matches for at least several years.

I would consider that statement to be incorrect. I have went the following two years, and always bring some new people, who NAQT gladly welcomes. My first year, I read half the rounds and scorekept for the other half. Last year, I read all but a couple rounds, since reading so many matches affects my voice.

[olsb25]

It's not on Prom Weekend for us this year! Victory!

[evilmonkey]

It's not on Prom Weekend for us this year! Victory!

Yea, its not on our grad/prom/whatever else weekend this year!!

[Tegan]

The NAQT moderators are a pretty tight group .... mostly people who have done it before. I would say just from being there the past two years, 85-95% of them are really top notch mods. About the best you can shoot for is scorekeeping and maybe moderating on Sunday during the consolation rounds.

In other words: don't pretend that you will be moderating any matches for at least several years.

I would consider that statement to be incorrect. I have went the following two years, and always bring some new people, who NAQT gladly welcomes. My first year, I read half the rounds and scorekept for the other half. Last year, I read all but a couple rounds, since reading so many matches affects my voice.

I was going off of a loose observation ...... so I will apologize, and reiterate Dr. Fischer's question .....

[e_steinhauser]

Interesting to see the date shift to late May, right before Memorial Day, instead of continuing to grab the first weekend in June.

My guess is that it accomplishes a few things:

* Since most folks will have Monday off, travel arrangements will likely be easier for everyone.

* Earlier date means less chance of interfering with graduation events. Still might interfere with some really late proms, but that's not as big a concern for most, I'd imagine.

As for the staff thing ... Having done NAQT HSCT a few times, I'd say the more folks who can staff the better. Reading ten or more rounds in a day is taxing on anyone, let alone doing it at a high level for two days in a row. Having someone to trade off with for even a few rounds makes a big difference, especially at the end of the second day.

[Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)]

I'm curious why everyone seems to think school always gets out in June. That is totally not the case for a large area of the nation.

[rhentzel]

If you are interested in moderating at the 2007 HSNCT, don't hesitate to send us an e-mail at [email protected] to put your name forward. Please include a brief description of your experience with quiz bowl, particularly matches using NAQT's questions and official rules.

NAQT does have a solid "core" of moderators whom we trust to give teams a great experience, but we've also had a fairly significant number of new faces each year. I can't make guarantees about what any particular volunteer will be doing, but it's not the case that there's a cursus honorum where you have to keep score for several years until you are trusted to moderate.

Anybody with other questions about the HSNCT is welcome to contact us directly at [email protected] as well.

-- R. Robert Hentzel
President and Chief Technical Officer,
National Academic Quiz Tournaments, LLC

[bigtrain]

Why Chicago again? I still can't figure out how a tourist could occupy more than a day or two there.

[AKKOLADE]

This Chicago thing is getting old.

Chicago again?

Why Chicago again? I still can't figure out how a tourist could occupy more than a day or two there.

ARGH CHICAGO ARGH

Next year I will attempt to have it hosted in Parkersburg, West Virginia so you can actually have something to complain about. Now get off my lawn.

[David Riley]

Yeah, really, what's wrong with Chicago?

We have:

1) the world champion White Sox (and as a Cubs fan, I don't believe I'm saying this...)

2) more good restaurants per capita per budget than anywhere else in the country, you really have to look hard to find a bad meal in the Chicago area....we even have a Georgian restaurant (and even had an Uzbek one at one time)!

3) the Art Institute of Chicago with its large collections of Impressionists and modern art.

4) the Goodman and the Steppenwolf theatres, among others



Get with it!

[Tegan]

Yeah, really, what's wrong with Chicago?

We have:

1) the world champion White Sox (and as a Cubs fan, I don't believe I'm saying this...)

2) more good restaurants per capita per budget than anywhere else in the country, you really have to look hard to find a bad meal in the Chicago area....we even have a Georgian restaurant (and even had an Uzbek one at one time)!

3) the Art Institute of Chicago with its large collections of Impressionists and modern art.

4) the Goodman and the Steppenwolf theatres, among others



Get with it!

You forgot:

The Shedd Aquarium for the Marine Biologist folks ... one of the biggest on Earth...

The Field Museum ..... one of the great museums on Earth.

MSI ..... a great diversion for an entire day ..... perhaps only topped by SF's Exploratorium.....perhaps

The best jazz in the solar system.

An architectural tour that puts nearly (emphasis, nearly) any metropolis on this continent to shame .....

The Oriental Institute at the University of Chicago has some of the best holdings of Egyptian and Mesopotamian art on Earth.

Brookfield Zoo .... one (emphasis: one) of the best zoos anywhere.

Two great botanic gardens (and several smaller ones) ... plus Cantigny out in Wheaton.....not to mention the numerous parks and lakefront.

I've lived here for 35+ years .... traveled to New York, L.A, London, Dublin, Toronto, Atlanta, Denver .... et. al (which is far less than some of you here). I've never gotten bored or tired of this corner of the planet.

[swwFCqb]

bigtrain said:

Why Chicago again? I still can't figure out how a tourist could occupy more than a day or two there

NAQT doesn't really leave you with much time to do anything other than play, so why does it matter where its held? If it was a tournament like NAC, for instance, then this complaint would be more relevant. Besides, Chicago is actually a pretty fun city; if you do find any time to spare, it's not that hard to find something to do. Even if you don't know of anything to do, sometimes just exploring the city can be fun, too.

[cvdwightw]

Perhaps NAQT is just filling the void left by ASCN's departure to ensure there is one national championship tournament held in Illinois every year.

[Zip Zap Rap Pants]

2) more good restaurants per capita per budget than anywhere else in the country, you really have to look hard to find a bad meal in the Chicago area

That makes it difficult to explain how 1/3rd of my high school's players got sick and two had to sit out games last year. They ate at nearby Southwestern/Mexican place, and I don't think it was a chain. Maybe we just had terrible luck...

[Maxwell Sniffingwell]

Two words: deep dish.

As a Chicago-area teenager, you'd think I'd have had too much of a good thing by now. But our pizza is just too good to be ignored. I'm actually on the phone with Lou Malnati's right now, ordering a large one for dinner. No joke.

So yes, we have Uzbek restaurants... but don't ignore the local joints while you're in town.

[aznphatso]

I vaguely remember after my Teen Jeopardy audition last year, I went to the restaurant about a block and a half away from the Crowne Plaza. The carne asada was excellent, and the Friday/Saturday of the competition, my team and I ordered deep dish pizza twice.

[JohnAndSlation]

2) more good restaurants per capita per budget than anywhere else in the country, you really have to look hard to find a bad meal in the Chicago area

That makes it difficult to explain how 1/3rd of my high school's players got sick and two had to sit out games last year. They ate at nearby Southwestern/Mexican place, and I don't think it was a chain. Maybe we just had terrible luck...

That might have been thanks to TBK (Taco Burrito King). They're the exception.

[bigtrain]

Compare the list of things to do in Chicago to that of New York, Washington and maybe even LA. No contest.

[AKKOLADE]

Compare the list of things to do in Chicago to that of New York, Washington and maybe even LA. No contest.

Yes, those three cities do likely have more entertainment available. However, I'm fairly certain that NAQT is more concerned about providing a central location which allows more teams an easy ability to travel to that site. I'm sure NAQT does consider entertainment available, but that's a bit further down the list from the centrality of the location.

I'm all for criticism, but I'd also like to see it vary from how boring Chicago is. Kingston, Jamaica may be a great place to visit, but I doubt it'd be a profitable spot for a quiz bowl tournament.

[David Riley]

I agree with the above re the Jamaica comment. I've often wondered if the level of competition would increase if it weren't held at Disneyworld.

[Captain Sinico]

Compare the list of things to do in Chicago to that of New York, Washington and maybe even LA. No contest.

I strongly disagree. Having been to all those places, I unreservedly claim that there's more fun stuff to do in any of them than you're going to be able to do in a whole year of weekends, much less three in your lifetime. Don't excuse your poor planning by pretending there's nothing fun to do in a metro area of ten million people.

MaS

[bigtrain]

Compare the list of things to do in Chicago to that of New York, Washington and maybe even LA. No contest.

I strongly disagree. Having been to all those places, I unreservedly claim that there's more fun stuff to do in any of them than you're going to be able to do in a whole year of weekends, much less three in your lifetime. Don't excuse your poor planning by pretending there's nothing fun to do in a metro area of ten million people.

MaS

Can you really compare the quality of the Field Museum and Art Institute of Chicago to the museums in New York and Washington, the latter of which houses the largest museum complex in the world. Not to mention the fact that Washington's museums are FREE! Can you really compare the quality of the Shedd to that of the National Aquarium? I'll admit that in two days you can fill up your time just as well in Chicago as in New York and Washington, but the experience probably won't be as good. Furthermore, Chicago is less than 400 miles closer to the weighted population center of the United States (located in Southeastern Missouri) than Washington. The weighted quizbowl center of the United States is most likely closer to Washington than Chicago.

I'll also add that I greatly prefer having a national championship for an academic activity in Chicago rather than Disney World.

Although this is kinda irrelevant: Chicago probably won't break into 8 digits for a few more years. By 2015 (maybe 2020) it will no longer be the 3rd most populous metro area in the country.

[Captain Sinico]

Can you really compare the quality of the Field Museum and Art Institute of Chicago to the museums in New York and Washington, the latter of which houses the largest museum complex in the world.

Yes?

Can you really compare the quality of the Shedd to that of the National Aquarium?

Yes. The only thing that doesn't seem comparable to me is the level of regional parochialism displayed by people from each metro in this thread.

I'll admit that in two days you can fill up your time just as well in Chicago as in New York and Washington, but the experience probably won't be as good.

What? No. Either you can find stuff to do for two days that is more or less just as good, or you can't. If you admit I'm right, then you lose. If not, then you tell me why I'm wrong. I don't know how you argue in DC, but we call what you just did "equivocating" in my small, insignificant corner of the nation.

The rest of what you said has less than nothing to do what what I said, so I've decided to respond to it with a counter-argument in your very own style:

Can you really compare the height of the Washington Monument and Empire State Building to the buildings in Chicago, one of which is the tallest building in the world. Not to mention the fact that the Sears Tower's observation deck is FREE! Can you really compare the quality of Nationals to the White Sox? I'll admit that in two days you can probably have just as good an experience in New York and Washington as in Chicago, but you you can't fill up your time as well. Furthermore, New York is over 500 feet closer to zero elevation (located at sea level) than Chicago. The weighted quizbowl elevation of the United States is most likely closer to the moon than to the sea.

[Strongside]

I think Chicago is great place for NAQT Nationals. It's a good central point and its a big metropolitan area with a lot of stuff for teams to do in their free time. It is located near O'Hare which is very convenient. If NAQT has had great success there in the past it makes sense to stay there and not risk going to another place.

[BuzzerZen]

I think the dissatisfaction with the Chicago location isn't that Chicago is boring, it's that the Crowne Plaza is a 45-minute train ride from actual Chicago. The last two years, it hasn't been feasible for us to spend extra time there, so there was no way to actually go do Chicago stuff. The extent of our Chicago tourism was a hellish walk down the highway to Denny's in 2005. The tournament doesn't take place in Chicago so much as Godforsaken Asphalt Conventionland. Hence the disgruntlement.

[Captain Sinico]

I think the dissatisfaction with the Chicago location isn't that Chicago is boring, it's that the Crowne Plaza is a 45-minute train ride from actual Chicago. The last two years, it hasn't been feasible for us to spend extra time there, so there was no way to actually go do Chicago stuff. The extent of our Chicago tourism was a hellish walk down the highway to Denny's in 2005. The tournament doesn't take place in Chicago so much as Godforsaken Asphalt Conventionland. Hence the disgruntlement.

Woah, an argument that makes sense! Yeah, that's true; Rosemont is somewhat inconvenient to the rest of Chicago (not 45 minutes inconvenient, unless you want to go to Indiana, but inconvenient.) I think, if you plan things well, you should still be able to do whatever you want, or you wouldn't have anyway on account of your spending all your time playing quizbowl.

Later,
MaS

[Tegan]

Compare the list of things to do in Chicago to that of New York, Washington and maybe even LA. No contest.

I will give you Washington on the argument that the Smithsonian and associated outlying complexes are worthy of a lifetime of exploration ....and the monuments and Arlington, and even trips out to Mt. Vernon are certainly hard to top.


But New York over Chicago ..... not ever .... not close. I couldn't wait to visit the Museum of Natural History in New York ...... except for some of the classic pictures, I was disappointed. Heck, I was at the British Museum and except for the stuff on Ancient Egypt, Greece, and the Vikings, I was expecting a whole lot more. True: 1 Rosetta Stone does trump quite a bit else.

The National Aquarium, except for being a bit newer, has nothing on the Shedd .... I will certainly bow to the new Atlanta Aquarium, sight unseen, but even Seattle's Aquarium was nothing ompared to the Shedd.

Art museums are harder to compare because it depends a bit on what you are comparing. If all you are looking at, for example, was 20th century art, I would take MOMA over the Art Institute any day, any time. Renaissance - eighteenth century ..... I would go with Boston or the Smithsonian among others. But if you include nineteenth century, impressionism, etc, the Art Institute ranks world class.

As for music, while New York may harbor more opportunities, the quality Chicago offers is at least equal. CSO is world class. You will never find the jazz clubs here anywhere else. If it plays Broadway, it comes to Chicago (and as we like to say: in New York you get stars, in Chicago you get artists). Having been to Broadway, an evening at the Auditorium Theater is at least as nice.

Now that aside, and I am no mind reader, I would guess that the attendance at Chicago has been better than at other sites, and hence the desire to keep things there. It is also true that if you really do come to play, you won't have time for much .... maybe one or two things ..... BUT, if you keep coming back, over the course of a couple of years, you get to see a few things.

[e_steinhauser]

I think the dissatisfaction with the Chicago location isn't that Chicago is boring, it's that the Crowne Plaza is a 45-minute train ride from actual Chicago. The last two years, it hasn't been feasible for us to spend extra time there, so there was no way to actually go do Chicago stuff. The extent of our Chicago tourism was a hellish walk down the highway to Denny's in 2005. The tournament doesn't take place in Chicago so much as Godforsaken Asphalt Conventionland. Hence the disgruntlement.

Unless schools get in early on Friday or stay over for Monday, it's true there's not a whole lot of time to do any significant exploration of whatever the host site is.

My main complaint with the Crowne Plaza location was that the food selection, particularly for Sunday lunch, was exceedingly poor. You're either hiking a mile or so down to McDonald's, paying out your nose for crappy hotel food, or buying an overpriced steak. None of those options were particularly appealing for someone with limited time on a budget.

My wife and I came in on Thursday night this year, and so we hit the Art Institute on Friday. It was such a treat to finally see in-person many of the works I'd admired for years. Assuming we work it again in 2007, we'll be hitting the Shedd Aquarium.

[btressler]

I think Chicago is great place for NAQT Nationals. It's a good central point and its a big metropolitan area with a lot of stuff for teams to do in their free time. It is located near O'Hare which is very convenient. If NAQT has had great success there in the past it makes sense to stay there and not risk going to another place.

Chicago is a great place for nationals, just not every year.

I'd like to put in a vote for a Mid-Atlantic NCT. A lot of tournaments in this region have 40-60 teams in attendance, and I note that a healthy dose of teams ranging from Virginia to New York made it into Sunday's rounds last year.

We have no idea what's getting said in the post-nationals surveys. If everyone is saying that Chicago was great, they're happy, and they don't want it to move, then I don't fault NAQT for not changing a thing.

[bigtrain]

Can you really compare the quality of the Field Museum and Art Institute of Chicago to the museums in New York and Washington, the latter of which houses the largest museum complex in the world.

Yes?

I disagree. I'd wager most others agree with me.

Can you really compare the quality of the Shedd to that of the National Aquarium?

Yes. The only thing that doesn't seem comparable to me is the level of regional parochialism displayed by people from each metro in this thread.

Alright, upon further consideration I'd say they're probably equal. You're pretty much saying that any one who doesn't like Chicago must be a Northeast elitest because Chicago is so inherently great that any one who has visited multiple times and still doesn't like it must have some sort of bias.

I'll admit that in two days you can fill up your time just as well in Chicago as in New York and Washington, but the experience probably won't be as good.

What? No. Either you can find stuff to do for two days that is more or less just as good, or you can't. If you admit I'm right, then you lose. If not, then you tell me why I'm wrong. I don't know how you argue in DC, but we call what you just did "equivocating" in my small, insignificant corner of the nation.

What I was trying to say is that it is just as easy to fill up a weekend in Chicago by visiting museums and other entertainment venues as it is in New York and Washington. All three cities are huge enough to be able to satisfy one's tourist appetite for a weekend. However, I think that the quality of the attractions in NYC and DC are better than those in Chicago. Similarly, you could probably find enough things to do in Minneapolis (or some other midwestern city) for a weekend, it's just that the quality of the things you do won't be as high.

Can you really compare the height of the Washington Monument and Empire State Building to the buildings in Chicago, one of which is the tallest building in the world. Not to mention the fact that the Sears Tower's observation deck is FREE!

I'm sorry, which building in Chicago is the tallest in the world? Also, I payed $15 to get to the top of the Sears Tower. I really don't see how a skyline is going to entertain a quiz bowl team. DC's monuments are more educational and NYC's skyline is superior (especially with the addition of the Freedom Tower).

Furthermore, New York is over 500 feet closer to zero elevation (located at sea level) than Chicago. The weighted quizbowl elevation of the United States is most likely closer to the moon than to the sea.

Apparently using facts in arguments isn't cool anymore. It certainly warrants mockery...

[Captain Sinico]

Hey, I remember this thread! Anyway, if it's not immediately obvious that everything you're saying here is either quibbling; pointless ad hominem (at me, for some reason); or unsubstantiated (and, in some cases, well nigh indefensible) personal opinions of yours regarding the quality of various attractions, then I have nothing more to say to you, other than "stop resurrecting dead threads for no reason other than to quibble, make pointless ad hominem attacks, or post unsubstantiated personal opinions."

Thanks,
MaS

[bigtrain]

Hey, I remember this thread! Anyway, if it's not immediately obvious that everything you're saying here is either quibbling; pointless ad hominem (at me, for some reason); or unsubstantiated (and, in some cases, well nigh indefensible) personal opinions of yours regarding the quality of various attractions, then I have nothing more to say to you, other than "stop resurrecting dead threads for no reason other than to quibble, make pointless ad hominem attacks, or post unsubstantiated personal opinions."

Thanks,
MaS

With the exception of resurrecting a month old thread, I really don't know what you're talking about. I'm especially uncertain as to where this supposed ad hominem is in what I wrote.

I don't know how you argue in DC, but we call what you just did "equivocating" in my small, insignificant corner of the nation.

Chicago is definately not an insignificant corner of the nation!!!
Every great country needs a city to trade pork grind futures and be the posterchild for social and food sanitation reform...Rock on Windy City!

[Zip Zap Rap Pants]

Honestly, even after nationals last year, I'd have to say attraction-wise and such that San Diego is one of the best cities I've ever been to, but then again a truly national quizbowl tournament would never be held there. But yet again teams won't have a lot of time to see all attractions in any city, most cities will satisfy the time they have, so in a way the direction of this thread is a moot point.

Not that it really matters, but for argument's sake, the Sears Tower would be the tallest building in the world if you counted the antennas, but nobody does, and even if you did you'd have to throw it in the category of tallest freestanding structure (in which case the CN tower wins anyway) or the tallest supported structure (a record which some TV tower in North Dakota holds).

[AKKOLADE]

Locking this thread. If discussion on NAQT HSNCT is desired, a new thread can start and focus on the actual even rather than inane arguments about the quality of host cities.