More Racism from NAQT

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WestBerkeleyFlats
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More Racism from NAQT

Post by WestBerkeleyFlats »

It's one thing for an NAQT to have a member who is a participant in and a financial contributor to an organization with an ideology of white supremacy. :kenj: It's quite another when NAQT has a member who simply lies about such beliefs.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/200 ... tml?page=1

"An equally problematic part of Mormon history has been hammered by pundits like Christopher Hitchens, who has called my church "an officially racist organization."

It's true that, prior to 1978, blacks could not be ordained to the Mormon priesthood. But here, too, a more nuanced view is helpful. Joseph Smith is now known to have ordained African-American men in the 1830s and 1840s. The prohibition evolved in later decades, propped up by a series of racist folk doctrines. Mormons were relieved when those teachings were repudiated. (It adds context but little comfort to note that other major U.S. denominations had racist and segregationist dogma on their books until the 1970s as well.)"

"Racist folk doctrines"? As opposed to the official statements on the matter made by the leadership of the LDS church?

[url =http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/ne ... .htm#black]
Neither White nor Black[/url], a work written by "Mormon Scholars" affiliated with
Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought and published by Signature Books, lists three "Authoritative Statements" by the LDS church on the matter of race. The third is the 1978 statement ending the ban on Black males receiving the LDS priesthood. The first was issued in 1949 by the First Presidency of the LDS church. It states:
The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time. The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to."

President Wilford Woodruff made the following statement: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have."

The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes.

The First Presidency
The statement of the First Priesthood of the LDS church, sustained by its members as prophets, seers, as revelators, clearly explains that Blacks were denied the priesthood on the grounds that they were "cursed" collectively as descendants of Cain, and implicitly Ham through whom this supposed curse was continued after the Biblical flood in LDS beliefs. Moreover, the statements affirms LDS beliefs that Blacks were denied the priesthood because they were cursed individually as consequence of having been less valiant than other races in a premortal existence.

The second statement, made in 1969 after Hugh B. Brown of the First Presidency tried to end the LDS priesthood ban following the decision of Stanford University to refuse to schedule athletic events with Brigham Young University because of the LDS church's racist policies and beliefs, was addressed to all leaders and congregations of the church and said in part:
A word of explanation concerning the position of the Church.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints owes its origin, its existence, and its hope for the future to the principle of continuous revelation. "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God."

From the beginning of this dispensation, Joseph Smith and all succeeding presidents of the Church have taught that Negroes, while spirit children of a common Father, and the progeny of our earthly parents Adam and Eve, were not yet to receive the priesthood, for reasons which we believe are known to God, but which He has not made fully known to man.

Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, "The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God....
thus affirming LDS doctrine that its discrimination against Blacks was commanded by God, predates this existence, and contrary to the assertion of some ( :kenj: ) was taught by every previous president of the LDS church including Joseph Smith (Although Smith did ordain some African-Americans such as Elijah Abel, he also produced the LDS scriptural justification for the priesthood ban of Blacks as descendants of Cain and Ham contained in the Books of Abraham and Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.).

These official statements of the LDS church have never been rescinded or repudiated. Instead, apologists for this organization pretend that this organization did not present formal justifications for its discrimination, ascribing the many statements made by church leaders, many of which were much more racist and offensive than these official statements, as the personal beliefs of these men or more dishonestly, "folklore." Perhaps one can deem the statements of church presidents and apostles, all of whom are considered to be prophets, seers, and revelators, in the General Conferences of the church or in books and magazines published by the church as informal statements or personal opinion (Apostle Ezra Taft Benson for example, previously US Secretary of Agriculture and a future president of the LDS church taught in General Conference addresses delivered to all church members in the late 1960s that the civil rights movement was a communist conspiracy to overthrow US society using supposed concern for the well-being of African Americans as a pretense for fomenting civil strife), but one cannot construe these official statements as anything other than the doctrines taught by the LDS church.

Why does NAQT persist in condoning white supremacy?
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Post by Strongside »

I do not see how NAQT is condoning white supremacy, but I also didn't really read the articles you posted. Just because :kenj: is Mormon doesn't mean he is racist, but I suppose someone from NAQT would be best fit to address this question.

Also, the tiltle of the article said "More Racism From NAQT." Do you have any examples of prior incidences of racism from NAQT? I am just curious.
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Post by Stained Diviner »

I didn't read the article, and I only skimmed the post, but I saw enough to conclude that WestBerkeleyFlats is an idiot.
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Post by quizbowllee »

ReinsteinD wrote:I didn't read the article, and I only skimmed the post, but I saw enough to conclude that WestBerkeleyFlats is an idiot.
I read it. WestBerkeleyFlats put a lot of time and effort into proving that he is, in fact, an idiot. Also, he is an anti-NAQTite.
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Post by BuzzerZen »

I tried to dump this post into the forbidden zone, but, overruled by Matt, I'm just going to swing by and point out that there are various reasons why your post is idiotic independently of the truth value of the statements "Mormonism is racist", "Ken Jennings is racist", and "NAQT is racist". I may elucidate these reasons after I wake up in eight hours or so if Sorice has not stepped in to do a better job while I slumber.
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Post by AKKOLADE »

Step 1. Review how an organization shockingly had racist policies back in the day.
Step 2. Because a Mormon is part of NAQT, accuse the entire organization of racism.
Step 3. Still working on this guys bear with me.
Step 4. PROFIT STRAIGHT CASH MONEY HOMES

Also, second to question "more racism from NAQT" because wtf
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Post by Stained Diviner »

This entire board is racist. The people in charge of it live in the United States, whose first President owned slaves. Furthermore, they live on Earth, a Planet whose recent history is full of income disparities that correlate to race, national origin, and gender.

You all suck.

QED
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Post by Ben Dillon »

Without a shadow of a doubt, I'm completely persuaded by the well-constructed and flawlessly logical argument of the original post.

Because of the heinous actions of Mormonism prior to thirty years ago, I immediately and with prejudice sever any ties with NAQT. The connection between the two organizations is so blatantly obvious that I should have seen it myself years ago.

Further, to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, my team will promptly destroy any trophies we earned at NAQT tournaments, shred our NAQT question sets, withraw from our league due to the fact that NAQT provides the questions, and wipe our historical record of any and all wins on NAQT sets. We will, however, keep the losses as a penalty for ever doing business with them.

How refreshing it is to have the world view crystallized for me!

Edit: I completely forgot that I must be consistent and discontinue watching Jeopardy! as well. They, like NAQT, are likewise tainted.
Last edited by Ben Dillon on Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by AKKOLADE »

ReinsteinD wrote:This entire board is racist. The people in charge of it live in the United States, whose first President owned slaves. Furthermore, they live on Earth, a Planet whose recent history is full of income disparities that correlate to race, national origin, and gender.

You all suck.

QED
Ben Dillon wrote:Wihtout a shadow of a doubt, I'm completely persuaded by the well-constructed and flawlessly logical argument of the original post.

Because of the heinous actions of Mormonism prior to thirty years ago, I immediately and with prejudice sever any ties with NAQT. The connection between the two organizations is so blatantly obvious that I should have seen it myself years ago.

Further, to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, my team will promptly destroy any trophies we earned at NAQT tournaments, shred our NAQT question sets, withraw from our league due to the fact that NAQT provides the questions, and wipe our historical record of any and all wins on NAQT sets. We will, however, keep the losses as a penalty for ever doing business with them.

How refreshing it is to have the world view crystallized for me!
The entire reason I'm keeping this thread open is for responses like these.
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Post by First Chairman »

Gosh, I remember the days when all our outrages came from :chip: .

Next thing you'll tell me is that :kenj: was listed in the Mitchell report.
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Post by DumbJaques »

Not enough racism from naqt
Fixed. Seriously, bigotry is a pillar of quizbowl, people. If Ken Jennings somehow extends his religious beliefs into his behavior as a representative of NAQT (such as, say, refusing to discuss qb with people who think Mormonism is a joke, or going to hotel rooms at HSNCT and proselytizing), that might be in some way a grounds for discussion. Also, while that post is crazy, this crap
but I also didn't really read the articles you posted.
is probably not a great idea. What if the article detailed R.'s ritual sacrifice of minority children to the altar of Moroni? YOU DON'T KNOW.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

DumbJaques wrote:going to hotel rooms at HSNCT and proselytizing
:kenj: MODERATES
:kenj: OPENS DRAWER
:kenj: LOOK ITS BOOK OF MORMON FIFTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN
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Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed »

Yeah, the original poster of this thread is a noted crazy man with an obsession about the Mormon Church. I read his blog for a few weeks in early 2006 (it seems to no longer exist) and every single post was about how terrible the Mormon Church is. A google search reveals that he also trolls the kenjennings.com forums with pretty much the same rant he posted here. (example)

My advice to the forum is to point and laugh.
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Post by Captain Sinico »

Oh jokes!

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Post by AKKOLADE »

ImageMormonRacist: Computer! Tell me our plans for NAQT SCT this year!

ImageHENTZEL3000: RULE ONE. RUN MORE TOSS UPS ON V-SMILE

ImageHENTZEL3000: RULE TWO. ANNOY INTERNET QUIZ BOWLERS BY HOSTING EVENT IN CHICAGO AGAIN

ImageHENTZEL3000: RULE THREE. CONTINUE BLATANT DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MINORITIES.

ImageMormonRacist: Excellent! Run evil_laughter.exe!

ImageHENTZEL3000: MWAH. HA. HA.

ImageMormonRacist: MWAHAHAHAHAHA! MY MORMONISTIC RACISM WILL BE PERSONIFIED BY ALL OF NAQT!

ImageHENTZEL3000: MWAH. HA. HA.

ImageQBTeam: Hey we'd like to play a quiz bowl tourn-

ImageHENTZEL3000: WARNING. WARNING. INTRUDERS. WARNING. WARNING.

ImageMormonRacist: What is this? Computer, fire the racist missiles!

ImageHENTZEL3000: INCORRECT SYNTAX.

ImageMormonRacist: Damned Trebek programming! Ahem... What is blast the hell out of those kids?

ImageHENTZEL3000: COMMAND AFFIRMED. FIRING H AND R BLACK MISSILES NOW. PEW PEW PEW.

ImageQBTeam: :sad:

ImageRostonBeef: Gasp! NAQT's racism has risen again! I must stop this - now! Commence the posting of conspiracy theories now!

ImageHENTZEL3000: PROGRAMMING CORRUPTED. (A)BORT (R)ETRY (F)AIL?

ImageMormonRacist: DAMN YOU ROSTRON
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Post by Gautam »

lolz
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Post by Auks Ran Ova »

Post of forever.
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Post by STPickrell »

You mean it DOESN'T stand for National Aryan Quiz Tournaments?
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Post by Stained Diviner »

PEW PEW PEW
Now my Calculus class is wondering why I laughed while they were struggling with their tests.
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Post by Mike Bentley »

This has Stingray potential.
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Post by First Chairman »

BuzzerZen wrote:I tried to dump this post into the forbidden zone, but, overruled by Matt, I'm just going to swing by and point out that there are various reasons why your post is idiotic independently of the truth value of the statements "Mormonism is racist", "Ken Jennings is racist", and "NAQT is racist". I may elucidate these reasons after I wake up in eight hours or so if Sorice has not stepped in to do a better job while I slumber.
May we please move this to AHAN? (Thanks!)
Last edited by First Chairman on Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by AKKOLADE »

Will Run PACE for Reese's wrote:
BuzzerZen wrote:I tried to dump this post into the forbidden zone, but, overruled by Matt, I'm just going to swing by and point out that there are various reasons why your post is idiotic independently of the truth value of the statements "Mormonism is racist", "Ken Jennings is racist", and "NAQT is racist". I may elucidate these reasons after I wake up in eight hours or so if Sorice has not stepped in to do a better job while I slumber.
May we please move this to AHAN?
But we're still serious discussing this issue.

Okay so maybe not.
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Post by Tegan »

ReinsteinD wrote:This entire board is racist. The people in charge of it live in the United States, whose first President owned slaves. Furthermore, they live on Earth, a Planet whose recent history is full of income disparities that correlate to race, national origin, and gender.

You all suck.

QED
There you go again, the tool of the man .... the whitebread elititst from the platinum floored halls of Cheney High in Winnetka spouting off like they own the place or something. The only minority at that school is upper middle class white people.

Can we get back to faith-based race baiting, I'm having dinner with Ann Coulter tonight, and I need something to talk with her about.
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Post by rchschem »

That explains the "You Gotta Know...Famous Crackers" list.

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Post by grapesmoker »

Fred, that was awesome.

While I'm sure no one would label me as an NAQT or Ken Jennings partisan, they are way the hell far away from anything like racism. Nevertheless, I will note that I gleaned the same information from Brian's blog when it was still public that Bruce did, and my take on it is a little more than "he's just nuts." As I understand it, his family had deep involvement with LDS and as a consequence of their beliefs, denied Brian various medical attention. I don't condone his accusations of racism against NAQT, but I do understand how that sort of experience can drive someone to take a very bitter stand against LDS and anyone associated with it.
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Post by ezubaric »

grapesmoker wrote: had deep involvement with LDS and as a consequence of their beliefs, denied Brian various medical attention
Unless he had an Rx for double malt whiskey, LDS folk are pretty keen on prompt, thorough, modern medical treatment. That story also sounds a little dubious (but this, of course, is speculation based on hearsay).
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Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed »

Also, I think Sorice is right that he's just pulling our leg on this. One random post might perhaps be serious, and when I saw it this morning I thought it was; but two more posts on the same topic, with the same problems, sounds like he's just trolling for responses and wants to see how much outrage he can cause.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

ezubaric wrote: Unless he had an Rx for double malt whiskey
DR. WOLPERT IN DA HEEZY!!!

Image


(or should I say Phil Durkos?)

Edit: whoa, he actually was playing :kenj: in that game :razz:
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Image
If you have any questions or concerns please forward them to Aggie O'Neil.
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Post by the return of AHAN »

Tegan wrote:
ReinsteinD wrote:This entire board is racist. The people in charge of it live in the United States, whose first President owned slaves. Furthermore, they live on Earth, a Planet whose recent history is full of income disparities that correlate to race, national origin, and gender.

You all suck.

QED
There you go again, the tool of the man .... the whitebread elititst from the platinum floored halls of Cheney High in Winnetka spouting off like they own the place or something. The only minority at that school is upper middle class white people.
Oh wow. I'm wondering whether or not you have to live in the Chicago burbs to truly appreciate the humor of that shot! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thank God I didn't read this thread at school as I was testing kids, too!
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Also, on a different note, I've never heard of Mormons disapproving of medical treatments, and if there are some, they must be pretty far removed from the run of the mill LDS. The only people I know of are our course your and my friends the Christian Scientists (I have an aunt who is one, and it's, uh, interesting to say the least). So I'm now curious as to what may have prompted that (assuming it's real).
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Post by Trevkeeper »

I think this story would only get better if it turns out someone from NAQT is the actual father of Jamie Lynn's baby.
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Post by grapesmoker »

ezubaric wrote:
grapesmoker wrote: had deep involvement with LDS and as a consequence of their beliefs, denied Brian various medical attention
Unless he had an Rx for double malt whiskey, LDS folk are pretty keen on prompt, thorough, modern medical treatment. That story also sounds a little dubious (but this, of course, is speculation based on hearsay).
All I can tell you is what he wrote on his blog, which is now closed. As I recall, the medical issues in question had something to do with both mental health (I don't remember the specific fact) and his eyesight. How the Mormonism plays into this I can't say, and of course I don't know how much of it is true, but it was a pretty persistent theme in many of his posts, so I don't have much reason to think it's a fabrication.
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Post by Captain Sinico »

Hey, listen; talking about blogs will always lead you to terrible threads like this one. Let's just stop doing that.

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Post by Stained Diviner »

I have to believe that these quotes are an attempt to add to this thread.
Romney says that it depends on what the definition of "saw" is.

A defensive Romney was peppered with questions today on exactly what he meant when he said -- most recently on Meet the Press -- that he "saw" his father march with Martin Luther King Jr. Recent articles have indicated that his father, the late Michigan Gov. George Romney, didn't march with the civil-rights leader.

Admitting that he didn't see the march with his own eyes, he said, "I 'saw' him in the figurative sense."

"The reference of seeing my father lead in civil rights," he said, "and seeing my father march with Martin Luther King is in the sense of this figurative awareness of and recognition of his leadership."

"I've tried to be as accurate as I can be," he continued, smiling firmly. "If you look at the literature or look at the dictionary, the term 'saw' includes being aware of -- in the sense I've described."

The questioning did not relent. "I'm an English literature major," he insisted at one point. "When we say I saw the Patriots win the World Series, it doesn't necessarily mean you were there." (He meant the Super Bowl, of course.)

The back-and-forth continued to go south for Romney, who had intended for the story of the day to be about his slams on Mike Huckabee for easing penalties for meth users. Romney had to correct an earlier statement that he had himself "gotten tough on methamphetamine" (His proposed legislation as governor never made it through the Massachusetts House.)

"I'm making sure that that's correct as quickly as I possibly can," he said. "If there's any confusion there I'm sorry for any confusion."

Romney was increasingly exasperated with the questioning, especially when a reporter tied in these instances of word-parsing with the governor's past missteps on the trail -- such as his suggestion that he was endorsed by the NRA.

"Again, you can decide to hyper-analyze a word and try and create an impression that would not be accurate," he responded. "Frankly, I didn't realize that the NRA had an official endorsement program that was different than them phone-banking for me."

'I didn't apply for that, wasn't aware of it," he added.

Romney added with a weary smile that he knows that his words will be scrutinized, and that he's "up for it."

"If now and then I miss a word or I get something slightly wrong, I'll correct it, acknowledge what's wrong. But the overall thrust, the overall meaning of the story is very accurate."
More here
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Post by AKKOLADE »

ImmaculateDeception wrote:Hey, listen; talking about blogs will always lead you to terrible threads like this one. Let's just stop doing that.

MaS
For once, I agree with your rules.
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Post by grapesmoker »

Rostron's personal issues aside, Romney really does suck.
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Post by ezubaric »

grapesmoker wrote:Rostron's personal issues aside, Romney really does suck.
I used to like Romney before he went all crazy conservative to woo hardliners. Speaking of crazy Mormons:

http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=68210&v=3393428911
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Post by AKKOLADE »

HEY
HAY
HAY

NO POLITICS IN THE AHAN JR POOL OK
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Post by Leo Wolpert »

Zip Zap Rap Pants wrote: DR. WOLPERT IN DA HEEZY!!!
I've since lost the shirt seen in that picture, thanks to a sleep-deprived tequila bender that resulted in my waking up a half mile away from my Barcelona hotel.

I would say that being a drunken gambling degenerate is my way of coping with losing badly on Jeopardy, but I've always been a drunken gambling degenerate.
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Post by Stat Boy »

grapesmoker wrote:Romney really does suck.
Quoted for some creepy and smarmy truth
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Post by AKKOLADE »

leftsaidfred wrote:HEY
HAY
HAY

NO POLITICS IN THE AHAN JR POOL OK
quoted for some super truth
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Post by ezubaric »

leftsaidfred wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote:NO POLITICS IN THE AHAN JR POOL OK
quoted for some super truth
Is this a personal preference or a directive from an admin? If the second, I can't find anything about that in the rules section, and it seems odd to not allow ridicule for one's political beliefs while allowing the same for for religious beliefs.
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Post by AKKOLADE »

ezubaric wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote:NO POLITICS IN THE AHAN JR POOL OK
quoted for some super truth
Is this a personal preference or a directive from an admin? If the second, I can't find anything about that in the rules section, and it seems odd to not allow ridicule for one's political beliefs while allowing the same for for religious beliefs.
personal preference

It's cool to have serious debates about religion and politics in the off topic area, but AHAN Jr is about being chillax and having fun and making fun of weird threads and the first present I got on We Love Katamari (an antenna).

So basically, if an actual religious/political/whateva debate broke out, I'd move it to the Off Topic forum.

Also, if someone wants to seriously make a thread about how NAQT is plotting the destruction of the country due to one member being a member of something political, that's cool, I'll just have to write another Ken Jennings comic strip.
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Post by naturalistic phallacy »

strifeheart wrote:Post of forever.
Quite
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Post by quizbowllee »

ReinsteinD wrote:
PEW PEW PEW
Now my Calculus class is wondering why I laughed while they were struggling with their tests.
You don't mean to tell me that you check this board at school when you are teaching and on the clock!!! Shame, shame, tsk, tsk...

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Post by jonah »

ReinsteinD wrote:
PEW PEW PEW
Now my Calculus class is wondering why I laughed while they were struggling with their tests.
For shame, Reinstein! I thought I was the only one who read these boards during your class.
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Post by Summoned Skull »

Oh my.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

leftsaidfred wrote: It's cool to have serious debates about religion and politics in the off topic area, but AHAN Jr is about being chillax and having fun and making fun of weird threads and the first present I got on We Love Katamari (an antenna).
Yeah but AHAN Jr. is convenient for saying offhand political remarks like "Karl Marx is a toolmaster/looks like evil Santa" and "Romney really does suck" whereas if you tried to throw that out there by itself in a serious debate in the off topic section, it would uh, not be very becoming of the intelligence of quizbowlers.
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Post by AKKOLADE »

Zip Zap Rap Pants wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote: It's cool to have serious debates about religion and politics in the off topic area, but AHAN Jr is about being chillax and having fun and making fun of weird threads and the first present I got on We Love Katamari (an antenna).
Yeah but AHAN Jr. is convenient for saying offhand political remarks like "Karl Marx is a toolmaster/looks like evil Santa" and "Romney really does suck" whereas if you tried to throw that out there by itself in a serious debate in the off topic section, it would uh, not be very becoming of the intelligence of quizbowlers.
Yeah, but that can also cross over into trolling and I don't really want to see that, especially on a topic as important and sensitive as politics.

Now, a thread could be devoted to evil Santa look a like contest and I'd be all over that.
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