CANCELLED: Cavalier Open 2/23/08 @ UVa
CANCELLED: Cavalier Open 2/23/08 @ UVa
We are sorry to announce that we will not be holding the Cavalier Open this year. We are aware that this goes against a post made on the message board a while back, but we've had to deal with some unforeseen logistical issues. We're very sorry for the confusion.
We will still be hosting the State tournament in April 19, as stated on the NAQT website.
Samantha Oddi
07-08 President
http://www.student.virginia.edu/~quizbowl
We will still be hosting the State tournament in April 19, as stated on the NAQT website.
Samantha Oddi
07-08 President
http://www.student.virginia.edu/~quizbowl
Last edited by Oddi on Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We (Dorman) played IS 70 at the University of Georgia (as did Chattahoochee and a couple other teams that would probably want to make the trek up to Charlottesville). We were really looking forward to the UVA tournament. Hopefully a set can be found that would work for all who are interested in competing.
Eric Huff
National History Bee (eric AT historybee.com)
ACE Quizbowl Camps (eric AT acequizbowlcamp.com)
Former Head Coach, Dorman High School (2001-2012)
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National History Bee (eric AT historybee.com)
ACE Quizbowl Camps (eric AT acequizbowlcamp.com)
Former Head Coach, Dorman High School (2001-2012)
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- DumbJaques
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I can assure you, positively, that IS-74 has the least amount of overlap for us. Even it has a bit too much, but switching right now would be an absolute impossibility. As for the teams that went to Princeton. . . I'm fairly sure a good number of them have already registered or have told me they will register.
Would IS-72 work? Or, possibly, could you use the Princeton set/WashU set? I've got a lot of local VA teams signed up as well as most of the top teams, so I don't think either of us would like to compete on the sets.
Would IS-72 work? Or, possibly, could you use the Princeton set/WashU set? I've got a lot of local VA teams signed up as well as most of the top teams, so I don't think either of us would like to compete on the sets.
Chris Ray
OSU
University of Chicago, 2016
University of Maryland, 2014
ACF, PACE
OSU
University of Chicago, 2016
University of Maryland, 2014
ACF, PACE
This is a rather tight pickle. IS-72 was used by GDS, and IS-68 was used by TJ in the fall. I don't think anybody wants to "compete" for teams...DumbJaques wrote:I can assure you, positively, that IS-74 has the least amount of overlap for us. Even it has a bit too much, but switching right now would be an absolute impossibility. As for the teams that went to Princeton. . . I'm fairly sure a good number of them have already registered or have told me they will register.
Would IS-72 work? Or, possibly, could you use the Princeton set/WashU set? I've got a lot of local VA teams signed up as well as most of the top teams, so I don't think either of us would like to compete on the sets.
I'm also trying to understand is what NAQT's "geographic exclusivity" means exactly.
Btw, I don't represent UVa except as an outside consultant.
- Robbie Ram
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What probably happened here is that I don't think DACQ asked for any geographic exclusivity for their tournament because the teams are from all over, but they *did* specifically request IS-74 because they wanted the last IS set issued for the year (in the hopes that the question selection, quality, & editing would be as good as possible).
I recall a discussion earlier in the year when DACQ was trying to decide on a question set, and someone from Stuyvesant who had attended the Princeton tournament referred to IS-70 as a 'gawdawful piece of [expletive deleted]', or something like that. The consensus seemed to be that the IS-70 question quality, subject distribution, and/or editing was poor to say the least. (I can't judge IS-70 from personal experience since I haven't heard/seen that set; I'm just relaying what I saw in the forums earlier in the season.)
On the other hand, the only local teams who attended Princeton and would also possibly attend UVA are Whitman and Gonzaga, plus maybe Wilmington Charter and/or State College. The top NY/NJ teams who attended Princeton (e.g. Stuyvesant, Hunter, Seton Hall, & Kellenberg) don't usually come to UVA, as I recall. Dorman and Chattahoochie did play IS-70 (as someone from Dorman pointed out in a previous post), so they would unfortunately be ineligible for IS-70. I believe all (or nearly all) of the above *are* planning to attend DACQ.
In other words, the teams ineligible for IS-70 who might otherwise attend the Cavalier Open would be:
Chattahoochie
Dorman
Gonzaga
State College
Wilmington Charter
Whitman
If you assume that area teams who are registered for DACQ will attend that rather than the Cavalier Open if a choice has to be made, then the following teams would be ineligible for IS-74:
Buckingham Co. (VA)
Chattahoochie
Dorman
E. C. Glass (VA)
Georgetown Day School
Gonzaga
MLK Magnet (TN)
Maggie Walker Gov. Sch.
J. W. Robinson (VA)
St. Stephen/St. Agnes (VA)
Thomas Jefferson
Whitman
Wilmington Charter
It's also reasonable to guess that State College might yet sign up for DACQ (which apparently they haven't yet), which would also put them in this list.
My conclusion: if you have to pick between IS-70 and IS-74, you'd exclude fewer teams by using IS-70. The same 6 area teams who are ineligible for IS-70 are (with the possible exception of State College) going to be ineligible for IS-74 *anyway*, but you'd exclude 12-14 *more* teams (assuming B and/or C and/or D teams for TJ, MWGS, & GDS) by going with IS-74.
The best bet, as Shawn suggested, might be to go non-NAQT unless you have no other choice...!!!
I recall a discussion earlier in the year when DACQ was trying to decide on a question set, and someone from Stuyvesant who had attended the Princeton tournament referred to IS-70 as a 'gawdawful piece of [expletive deleted]', or something like that. The consensus seemed to be that the IS-70 question quality, subject distribution, and/or editing was poor to say the least. (I can't judge IS-70 from personal experience since I haven't heard/seen that set; I'm just relaying what I saw in the forums earlier in the season.)
On the other hand, the only local teams who attended Princeton and would also possibly attend UVA are Whitman and Gonzaga, plus maybe Wilmington Charter and/or State College. The top NY/NJ teams who attended Princeton (e.g. Stuyvesant, Hunter, Seton Hall, & Kellenberg) don't usually come to UVA, as I recall. Dorman and Chattahoochie did play IS-70 (as someone from Dorman pointed out in a previous post), so they would unfortunately be ineligible for IS-70. I believe all (or nearly all) of the above *are* planning to attend DACQ.
In other words, the teams ineligible for IS-70 who might otherwise attend the Cavalier Open would be:
Chattahoochie
Dorman
Gonzaga
State College
Wilmington Charter
Whitman
If you assume that area teams who are registered for DACQ will attend that rather than the Cavalier Open if a choice has to be made, then the following teams would be ineligible for IS-74:
Buckingham Co. (VA)
Chattahoochie
Dorman
E. C. Glass (VA)
Georgetown Day School
Gonzaga
MLK Magnet (TN)
Maggie Walker Gov. Sch.
J. W. Robinson (VA)
St. Stephen/St. Agnes (VA)
Thomas Jefferson
Whitman
Wilmington Charter
It's also reasonable to guess that State College might yet sign up for DACQ (which apparently they haven't yet), which would also put them in this list.
My conclusion: if you have to pick between IS-70 and IS-74, you'd exclude fewer teams by using IS-70. The same 6 area teams who are ineligible for IS-70 are (with the possible exception of State College) going to be ineligible for IS-74 *anyway*, but you'd exclude 12-14 *more* teams (assuming B and/or C and/or D teams for TJ, MWGS, & GDS) by going with IS-74.
The best bet, as Shawn suggested, might be to go non-NAQT unless you have no other choice...!!!
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Of course, anyone who is ineligible to play on the NAQT set... we'd be happy to have you all help staff. :) Granted, that probably isn't what you wanted to do in the first place... but...
Emil Thomas Chuck, Ph.D.
Founder, PACE
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Facebook junkie and unofficial advisor to aspiring health professionals in quiz bowl
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- Robbie Ram
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FYI, here's NAQT's official "geographic exclusivity' policy from their website (http://www.naqt.com/hs/geographic-exclusivity.html):
So, it appears that either (1) NAQT screwed up by allowing both UVA and DACQ to host an IS-74 tournament within the state of Virginia, or (2) neither UVA nor DACQ asked for geographic exclusivity for Virginia. Those seem to be the only two possibilites for this situation.Hosts specify the exclusivity that they want by providing a list of states; NAQT will not allow another tournament to be hosted in any of those states using the same questions.
The WashU set will be used at William and Mary on February 17th, so that probably isn't an option. I believe that there was a house-written set used at Illinois in October or November that wasn't really discussed on the board, so that might work. Another possibility could be the NKC/Hunter set, but Charlie told me that he didn't really want a DC area mirror and many DC area teams will be going to Hunter anyway. Someone from Truman State tried to set up a mirror a few months ago. I think that the post is in the "regular season tournament discussion" section.
Ian Eppler from Brown University
But isn't the policy also set so that a host receives exclusivity for their home state (or region) automatically? If so, then only the first scenario is the possible case.Robbie Ram wrote:FYI, here's NAQT's official "geographic exclusivity' policy from their website (http://www.naqt.com/hs/geographic-exclusivity.html):
So, it appears that either (1) NAQT screwed up by allowing both UVA and DACQ to host an IS-74 tournament within the state of Virginia, or (2) neither UVA nor DACQ asked for geographic exclusivity for Virginia. Those seem to be the only two possibilites for this situation.Hosts specify the exclusivity that they want by providing a list of states; NAQT will not allow another tournament to be hosted in any of those states using the same questions.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Robbie Ram
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Yes, it seems you're right; here's the relevant line in the NAQT policy (http://www.naqt.com/hs/geographic-exclusivity.html):leftsaidfred wrote:But isn't the policy also set so that a host receives exclusivity for their home state (or region) automatically? If so, then only the first scenario is the possible case.Robbie Ram wrote:FYI, here's NAQT's official "geographic exclusivity' policy from their website (http://www.naqt.com/hs/geographic-exclusivity.html):
So, it appears that either (1) NAQT screwed up by allowing both UVA and DACQ to host an IS-74 tournament within the state of Virginia, or (2) neither UVA nor DACQ asked for geographic exclusivity for Virginia. Those seem to be the only two possibilites for this situation.Hosts specify the exclusivity that they want by providing a list of states; NAQT will not allow another tournament to be hosted in any of those states using the same questions.
Sounds like someone needs to file a complaint with NAQT...NAQT wrote:All tournaments receive geographic exclusivity for the state in which they are hosted.
I've let R. Robert Hentzel know.Robbie Ram wrote:Sounds like someone needs to file a complaint with NAQT...
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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- Auron
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I'm assuming the Rolla fall and Vandy sets have been seen in the DC area.
Given that this is in Virginia, I don't have any way of helping out here, as all my tossups have been seen by well, everyone in Virginia. The stuff I'm writing for MSHSAA series play is (1) probably a bit too easy for an elite tournament and (2) can't be played on until MSHSAA series play occurs.
Given that this is in Virginia, I don't have any way of helping out here, as all my tossups have been seen by well, everyone in Virginia. The stuff I'm writing for MSHSAA series play is (1) probably a bit too easy for an elite tournament and (2) can't be played on until MSHSAA series play occurs.
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Hey, so I just heard from Hentzel. Apparently somewhere in the chain they got confused about where the tournament was at base being held, or possibly I asked for the set before our location was finalized. In any event, DACQ should have had (and now does have) geographic exclusivity for Virginia. I believe we'll also be claiming it for DC and MD as well, though I doubt anyone will be hosting any tournaments on IS-74 in those states.
Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry for the confusion.
Chris Ray
OSU
University of Chicago, 2016
University of Maryland, 2014
ACF, PACE
OSU
University of Chicago, 2016
University of Maryland, 2014
ACF, PACE
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As far as I know, a lot of DC area teams that originally expressed interest in Hunter's tournament haven't signed up due to other conflicts or something. However, I may have discussed specific answers on the set with 1 or 2 people who had told me they wouldn't be able to make the Hunter tournament (Ian and Shantanu, can you IM me and tell me if I have?). If it seems like nobody from DC will be hearing the set, then yeah, I don't see too big of a reason why we can't run it there. However, I'd need to talk to Guy before making anything official.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
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We're going...Deesy Does It wrote:As far as I know, a lot of DC area teams that originally expressed interest in Hunter's tournament haven't signed up due to other conflicts or something. However, I may have discussed specific answers on the set with 1 or 2 people who had told me they wouldn't be able to make the Hunter tournament (Ian and Shantanu, can you IM me and tell me if I have?). If it seems like nobody from DC will be hearing the set, then yeah, I don't see too big of a reason why we can't run it there. However, I'd need to talk to Guy before making anything official.
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Oh, Guy didn't tell me that.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
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Didn't Vanderbilt produce two sets a year? I really would like to see a DC mirror on the spring set because I thought last year's set, which I heard at Patriot Games, were the best questions all year except PACE nats.
Daichi - Walter Johnson; Vanderbilt; U of Chicago.
Daichi's Law of High School Quizbowl: the frequency of posting in the Quizbowl Resource Center is proportional to the likelihood of being overrated.
Daichi's Law of High School Quizbowl: the frequency of posting in the Quizbowl Resource Center is proportional to the likelihood of being overrated.
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The DI sets do not overlap. They would not be difficulty-appropriate for any local teams coming to DACQ, I doubt NAQT would be interested in letting you run a high school tournament on them, and there will be issues with people discussing SCT after it happens on February 9. Those problems seem insurmountable, but the idea of having the elite HS teams play on DI Sectionals is interesting nonetheless.
Current state of affairs is that we'll use IS-70, but this is not at this point set in stone -- we're exploring other options to avoid excluding Dorman, Whitman, Gonzaga, and others.
Rest assured that asking NAQT to use college sets is not among the options.
Rest assured that asking NAQT to use college sets is not among the options.
Last edited by yangsta on Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vanderbilt's spring tournament is on April 5th, which seems just too late to use for both UVA and DACQ.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
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When I looked at the schedule and noticed a slew of state championships on March 1 but none prior, I assumed that March 1 was the NAQT cut off. Upon closer inspection, it looks like the state championship can be anytime after February 1, so yes, it could be February 23 if it's not widely considered too early.Matt Weiner wrote:You mean moving it to February 23 in place of the current tournament, right?yangsta wrote:Theoretically the NAQT state championship tournament could be moved from April to March 1, then move the invitational to sometime in April.
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Remember, Chris is trying to get some local teams at DACQ in a 'Cinderella' bracket.jbarnes112358 wrote:Given the caliber of teams at DACQ, why not use one of the easier recent NAQT college sets? That way, UVA could use IS-74.
I agree with Matt, though, that D1 questions may be appropriate for the elite teams. It may be too late this year to have DACQ be on D1 questions, but this is surely a possibility for 2009. NAQT has a blackout on HSNCT discussion due to the mirrors of that run at MN and UTC.
Yangsta: VHSL states are March 1 this year.
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Well, I believe the first weekend in March is the VHSL states, so I wanted to make sure there wasn't a conflict.
This is not the case. NAQT asks participants in the mirrors to avoid looking at the discussion threads or podcasts, on the honor system. This site uses the same rule and does not discourage HSNCT discussion.STPickrell wrote: NAQT has a blackout on HSNCT discussion due to the mirrors of that run at MN and UTC.
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OK, thanks for the correction. My point is that it would be possible to have a HS tournament on D1 questions using the same rules. You could have the Cinderella bracket on a regular IS set.Matt Weiner wrote:Well, I believe the first weekend in March is the VHSL states, so I wanted to make sure there wasn't a conflict.
This is not the case. NAQT asks participants in the mirrors to avoid looking at the discussion threads or podcasts, on the honor system. This site uses the same rule and does not discourage HSNCT discussion.STPickrell wrote: NAQT has a blackout on HSNCT discussion due to the mirrors of that run at MN and UTC.
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I would be in favor of this option. I can't see how it would be "too early" if it's after the official sanctioned NAQT SCT start date and if many other states are indeed having their SCTs only 1 week later, as it appears! In fact, I'd favor having the NAQT VA SCT in February or March *every* year, but I guess that's a discussion for another time...yangsta wrote:When I looked at the schedule and noticed a slew of state championships on March 1 but none prior, I assumed that March 1 was the NAQT cut off. Upon closer inspection, it looks like the state championship can be anytime after February 1, so yes, it could be February 23 if it's not widely considered too early.Matt Weiner wrote:You mean moving it to February 23 in place of the current tournament, right?yangsta wrote:Theoretically the NAQT state championship tournament could be moved from April to March 1, then move the invitational to sometime in April.
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Has a decision been made regarding the fee structure and the question set? Normally I wouldn't care until the last minute, but according to my coach MCPS has gotten stricter about trips to places outside of 60 mile radius, and we need to decide whether or not we want to go pretty early.
Daichi - Walter Johnson; Vanderbilt; U of Chicago.
Daichi's Law of High School Quizbowl: the frequency of posting in the Quizbowl Resource Center is proportional to the likelihood of being overrated.
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Gov is also anxious to find out which questions will be used, as WUHSAC's questions were suggested and we're considering sending a team to another tournament using those questions. As this would be one of few tournaments in a long string for this part of the tournament open to our entire club, we'd really like to avoid a conflict.
Sam L,
Maggie L. Walker Governor's School 2010 / UVA 2014 / VCU School of Education 2016
PACE
Maggie L. Walker Governor's School 2010 / UVA 2014 / VCU School of Education 2016
PACE
If the SCT DII set is ready in time for this tournament, could it be used instead of IS-70? The only SCT questions I've seen are the samples on the NAQT website, but they don't look too hard for a regular-season DC area tournament.pblessman wrote:Great question, sorry I didn't address that in the original post. Normally it does, but this year it doesn't. This set will not conflict with ANY NAQT HS set (IS, IS-A, or any of the league and special State sets).
edited to remove double quote
- Gonzagapuma1
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Div II SCT would be a really good tune-up for hsnct in my opinion.Hopper wrote:If the SCT DII set is ready in time for this tournament, could it be used instead of IS-70? The only SCT questions I've seen are the samples on the NAQT website, but they don't look too hard for a regular-season DC area tournament.
Would this not affect the high school player's eligibility? Also, isn't NAQT's rules about SCT participation pretty stringent in that it must be actual college students?Gonzagapuma1 wrote: Div II SCT would be a really good tune-up for hsnct in my opinion.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
He's talking about using the set, not attending the tournament itself, a la Culver's tournament.leftsaidfred wrote:Would this not affect the high school player's eligibility? Also, isn't NAQT's rules about SCT participation pretty stringent in that it must be actual college students?Gonzagapuma1 wrote: Div II SCT would be a really good tune-up for hsnct in my opinion.
Yay reading comprehension on my part. Sorry.DaGeneral wrote:He's talking about using the set, not attending the tournament itself, a la Culver's tournament.leftsaidfred wrote:Would this not affect the high school player's eligibility? Also, isn't NAQT's rules about SCT participation pretty stringent in that it must be actual college students?Gonzagapuma1 wrote: Div II SCT would be a really good tune-up for hsnct in my opinion.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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I second that thought. I mentioned this to the coach @ Western Albemarle and he seemed interested in attending, but I didn't have any updates to give to him!jbarnes112358 wrote:Hello. HELLO!
Is anybody from UVA reading this board?
People really need to know what's going on so we can plan our schedules accordingly. Thanks.
I am not from UVA... but NAQT's website has the tournament listed as IS-70 for 2/23, but last we heard from Yangsta is that this was not finalized.
I know that if I don't have a registration form by 2/8, I will probably be unable to get the trip together for my team. I am supposed to have all paper work in for travel stuff 2 weeks before the event if at all possible, so please someone Confirm the details of this event and get a registration form sent out to coaches.
Thanks!
I know that if I don't have a registration form by 2/8, I will probably be unable to get the trip together for my team. I am supposed to have all paper work in for travel stuff 2 weeks before the event if at all possible, so please someone Confirm the details of this event and get a registration form sent out to coaches.
Thanks!
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Hey: If there is interest and we can line up questions, I think we might be able to host a replacement tournament at VCU. It would be limited to 16-20 teams, which means any teams beyond the B team from one school would be waitlisted. If people would want to play in such an event on February 23, post here. I'll leave the discussion open until Monday morning and then make a decision.
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