Illinois '07-'08

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Tegan
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Post by Tegan » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:25 am

Clearly in so obviously weak a regional, and with their incredible experience, I would put my money on Our Lady of Tepeyac to win this.

I think they go in even money to be shut out in both matches. Talk about a guppy in a tank of pirahana!

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Post by dtaylor4 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:04 pm

One thing that confuses me:

With a regional in Decatur, why are the two local public high schools forced to go to Springfield?

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:04 pm

It's good to see Winnebago hosting Masonics, although I'm going to object to it just like I objected to Warren hosting the Bago-area Class A Sectional last year - we're on the outskirts of the sectional range! We're so far west of most of our sectional, that Byron is actually in the southern (Rock Falls) sectional, rather than ours, held 10 minutes to the north.

I'm not calling them out or anything - if they have any sort of choice in the matter, I support their decision to get out of Auburn's sectional, as they have a legitimate chance to win at Rock Falls and win a game or two at State. Winnebago tried to do the same thing when I was a senior, but ICTM Regionals and the horrible ex-question writer didn't convince me to go.

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Post by JackGlerum » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:17 pm

God, site #5 is gonna be a bloodbath.

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Post by cornfused » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:06 pm

16 regionals this year, too.


I was a big fan of the 15-regional setup...

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Post by Tegan » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:22 pm

Speaking of Sectionals, IHSA Pool Assignments are released:

Class A - POOL 1
Newton Sectional
Carlnville Sectional
PORTA Sectional
Warrensburg-Latham Sectional

CLASS A - POOL 2
Winnebago Sectional
Carterville Sectional
Knoxville Sectional
Latin Sectional

CLASS AA - POOL 1
Zion-Benton Sectional
Maine South Sectional
O'Fallon Sectional
Dunlap Sectional

CLASS AA - POOL 2
Marist Sectional
Wheaton-Warrenville Sectional
Bradley-Bourbonnais Sectional
Auburn Sectional


Normally I would say "How in the heck could they do that???" .... but then I remember that this is Illinois and I go back to thinking happy thoughts.

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Post by mlaird » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:45 pm

Of course, by "released" you mean, "not actually posted on the IHSA website yet, but I managed to procure them in some shady manner."

While not nearly as unfair as last year, having Auburn play Wheaton North will be the State Title match, much like the Auburn v. Fremd in 05-06.

But who knows who's coming out of the other Sectionals? Maine South is a crap shoot, Zion-Benton is probably a tossup between Stevenson and Fremd, B-B has one of the "top 8" teams from last year in Joliet Twp., but who knows if they can impress us again by being named as such. Then I'm not sure if O'Fallon or Carbondale will come out of that Sectional, since the Kickoffs saw O'Fallon beating Carbondale out for the championship.

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Post by the return of AHAN » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:06 pm

Knowing what I know, I'll say Fremd is good, but Stevenson is a smidge better. At this point, Fremd is slugging it out with Buffalo Grove for MSL supremacy, while I know of no one who is challenging Stevenson in the North Suburban. I'll just be happy if BHS can grab a regional title (varsity 6-2 headed into conference play next week, with wins over Hoffman & Schaumburg (twice)).
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Post by STPickrell » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:48 pm

BarringtonJP wrote:Knowing what I know, I'll say Fremd is good, but Stevenson is a smidge better. At this point, Fremd is slugging it out with Buffalo Grove for MSL supremacy, while I know of no one who is challenging Stevenson in the North Suburban. I'll just be happy if BHS can grab a regional title (varsity 6-2 headed into conference play next week, with wins over Hoffman & Schaumburg (twice)).
Does Schaumburg Conant have any sort of team? My co-captain in high school went there freshman and sophomore year, he showed up junior year and helped turn Warren County (VA) from a contender to a powerhouse.

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Post by JIrving » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:29 pm

Tegan wrote: Normally I would say "How in the heck could they do that???" .... but then I remember that this is Illinois and I go back to thinking happy thoughts.
I know. You think that they could figure out a way to do it better.

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Post by Tegan » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:34 pm

mlaird wrote:Of course, by "released" you mean, "not actually posted on the IHSA website yet, but I managed to procure them in some shady manner."
If by "shady" you mean "won in a poker hand". Yes.

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Post by Tegan » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:39 pm

STPickrell wrote: Does Schaumburg Conant have any sort of team? My co-captain in high school went there freshman and sophomore year, he showed up junior year and helped turn Warren County (VA) from a contender to a powerhouse.
Conant is actually in Hoffman Estates. Schaumburg High School serves Schaumburg. They both have teams.

They are not very active, though you will see Conant on rare occasion. Being where they are, it is pretty much a race to catch up to Fremd, Hoffman Estates H.S. or Buffalo Grove in any given year.

Oddly, I just got an e-mail from the Conant coach today .... he may be at the seeding meeting this year.

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Post by the return of AHAN » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:48 am

Tegan wrote:Conant is actually in Hoffman Estates. Schaumburg High School serves Schaumburg. They both have teams.

They are not very active, though you will see Conant on rare occasion. Being where they are, it is pretty much a race to catch up to Fremd, Hoffman Estates H.S. or Buffalo Grove in any given year.
Last month, Conant went 1-2 in the MSL crossover quad, kneepcapping Wheeling HS, 300-50, before losing to Hoffman and Elk Grove. Conant was also pummeled by Wheaton North, 300-30 at the Wheaton North kickoff classic (but who hasn't?). I swear we had a tourney last Saturday, but the results still haven't been posted yet, due to some technical issues. But I'm told they'll be up tomorrow afternoon.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:06 am

Does anyone have contact information for Hersey's coach?

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Post by BGSO » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:36 am

BarringtonJP wrote:
Tegan wrote:Conant is actually in Hoffman Estates. Schaumburg High School serves Schaumburg. They both have teams.

They are not very active, though you will see Conant on rare occasion. Being where they are, it is pretty much a race to catch up to Fremd, Hoffman Estates H.S. or Buffalo Grove in any given year.
Last month, Conant went 1-2 in the MSL crossover quad, kneepcapping Wheeling HS, 300-50, before losing to Hoffman and Elk Grove. Conant was also pummeled by Wheaton North, 300-30 at the Wheaton North kickoff classic (but who hasn't?). I swear we had a tourney last Saturday, but the results still haven't been posted yet, due to some technical issues. But I'm told they'll be up tomorrow afternoon.
I know that BG and Fremd both went 5-0 in their respective brackets, Fremd won in the final. BG and Fremd are split when they play, BG winning at the quad, Fremd at the preseason tourney.

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Post by Tegan » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:15 am

styxman wrote:Does anyone have contact information for Hersey's coach?
When was the last time any District 214 school, aside form Buffalo Grove said "boo" in Scholastic Bowl? I think I might have seen Rolling Meadows once ....maybe.

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Post by the return of AHAN » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:14 am

styxman wrote:Does anyone have contact information for Hersey's coach?
http://rmhs.d214.org/activities/scholas ... oster.html
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:06 pm

Excellent - thanks!

This should be a good weekend of competition. Fremd's tournament is using questions by David Bykowski, and Winnebago's got some of the NAQT Illinois-format packets. Who's going where?

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Post by crobbins52 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:14 am

Dixon's at Bago. You say they're using NAQT? That's AWESOME. I like those questions a lot more than the ones we've been getting at other places.
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Post by JIrving » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:39 pm

Fremd Results

1. Wheaton North
2. Stevenson
3. Wheaton Warrenville South
4. Loyola

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:26 pm

Winnebago Results
1. Auburn A
2. IMSA
3. Byron
4. Boylan
5. Winnebago
6. Auburn B
7. Sterling
8. Morrison

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Post by JackGlerum » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:43 pm

styxman wrote:questions by David Bykowski
Out of curiosity, who is this?

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Post by cornfused » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:47 pm

Carlo Angiuli, only older and from Maryland.
Last edited by cornfused on Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by the return of AHAN » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:05 am

JIrving wrote:Fremd Results

1. Wheaton North
2. Stevenson
3. Wheaton Warrenville South
4. Loyola
My question is, who was in the field?
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Post by Tegan » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:45 am

Query: Has anyone seen York this year? Ya' know: Elmhurst, West Suburban Conference, wears green, pretty half-way decent XCC team.

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Post by Trevkeeper » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:46 am

Tegan wrote:Query: Has anyone seen York this year?...pretty half-way decent XCC team.
That's the equivalent of calling Wheaton North a mediocre program.

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Post by Deviant Insider » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:30 pm

Masonic Update...
Regional #1 at Erie/ Regional #9 at Petersburg
Regional #2 at Rock Falls/ Regional #10 at Springfield
Regional #3 at Winnebago/ Regional #11 at Decatur
Regional #4 at Wheaton/ Regional #12 at Tolono
Regional #5 at Winnetka/ Regional #13 at Carlinville
Regional #6 at Farmington/ Regional #14 at Belleville
Regional #7 at Eureka/ Regional #15 at Fairfield
Regional #8 at Seneca/ Regional #16 at Carbondale

When the 16 Regional Champions advance to the State Tournament, the pairings will be as shown below:
Upper half of the bracket/ Lower half of the bracket
Reg. #5 vs Reg. #4/ Reg. #10 vs Reg. #14
Reg. #3 vs Reg. #7/ Reg. #12 vs Reg. #16
Reg. #2 vs Reg. #8/ Reg. #11 vs Reg. #15
Reg. #6 vs Reg. #1/ Reg. #13 vs Reg. #9
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:52 pm

Is this a joke? Wheaton North plays the New Trier sectional winner, earning a match with the winner of Auburn and Bloomington, so only one of the four best teams in the state (not counting those who can't get out of New Trier) gets top four status? And the southern half of the state - without Bloomington, of course - gets a free pass to the finals.

:w-hat:

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Post by mlaird » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:54 pm

JohnGlerum wrote:
styxman wrote:questions by David Bykowski
Out of curiosity, who is this?
http://www.aiquizbowl.com/about.html

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Post by harpersferry » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:49 pm

Re: the recently released finals pairings for Masonic and pools for IHSA

You'd think, when you already build a geographical bias into your tournament, that you'd attempt to at least make the finals somewhat fair.

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Post by JohnAndSlation » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:57 pm

styxman wrote:Is this a joke? Wheaton North plays the New Trier sectional winner, earning a match with the winner of Auburn and Bloomington, so only one of the four best teams in the state (not counting those who can't get out of New Trier) gets top four status? And the southern half of the state - without Bloomington, of course - gets a free pass to the finals.

:w-hat:

Gotta love Illinois...*glares at IHSA*
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Post by Tegan » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:11 pm

styxman wrote:Is this a joke? Wheaton North plays the New Trier sectional winner, earning a match with the winner of Auburn and Bloomington, so only one of the four best teams in the state (not counting those who can't get out of New Trier) gets top four status? And the southern half of the state - without Bloomington, of course - gets a free pass to the finals.

:w-hat:

Well ..... one team will have a smooth ride after two rounds ......

I guess Maine South and New Trier shouldn't have met in the finals last year! I can only imagine that didn't sit well with some of the bretheren and sisteren from south of the border.

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Post by the return of AHAN » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:21 am

Tegan wrote:I can only imagine that didn't sit well with some of the bretheren and sisteren from south of the border.
Which border? I-80? The Ohio River? The Rio Grande?
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Post by David Riley » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:36 pm

The sovereing state of Southernillinois begins at I-72 :wink:

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Post by mlaird » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:49 am

If anyone read Thayer's email to the coaches, he is very up front and open about his reasons for doing what he did with Masonic. His tournament will not feature the 16 best teams in the state, nor is it trying to provide us with a true tournament format in order to get down to the two best teams in the finals. His reasoning for allowing Southernillinois a ride to the finals is an attempt to get some of the higher monetary prizes into the hands of the teams that can actually make use of them. This is something I commend, even though I don't like taking away from the spirit of competition.

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Post by First Chairman » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:53 am

I'm not going to criticize the actions of a tournament director, but I will question the reasoning if what you state is true.

So the question is: why not just reward the Southern Illinois teams with better prizes if they win their region? Heck, why not just award all the regional winners? I understand the spirit of being altruistic here but I worry about any hard feelings that would have been institutionalized with such a move.
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Post by Tegan » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:34 pm

Will Run PACE for Reese's wrote:I understand the spirit of being altruistic here but I worry about any hard feelings that would have been institutionalized with such a move.
Not speaking of Masonics in particular, because those matchup are aslo somewhat random .....

But the IHSA's philosophy has created a snakepit's worth of venom. Downstate people in general don't care too much for upstaters, but when people in this neck of the woods see an obvious and blatant undeserving team advancing over 1, 2 or more teams from our area that so obviously should have, it relly helps to develop an attitude of "they advanced only because of where they are, not because of who they are. It is very hard to teach against that, because you preach "work hard, and you will be rewarded", and the IHSA, claiming to do in this in the name of educational philosophy, permits the undeservingto be consiously rewarded.

When that downstate team makes it that does actually deserrve to advance, there are some who can't get it out of their heads. Sadly, this system feeds a prejudice.

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Post by dtaylor4 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:49 pm

Will Run PACE for Reese's wrote:So the question is: why not just reward the Southern Illinois teams with better prizes if they win their region? Heck, why not just award all the regional winners? I understand the spirit of being altruistic here but I worry about any hard feelings that would have been institutionalized with such a move.
The regionals already have monetary prizes.

At Regionals
1st: $500
2nd: $400
3rd: $300
Consolation Champion: $200
4th: $100

At State:
1st: $2000
2nd: $1250
3rd: $950
Consolation Champion: $650
4th: $350
Everyone else: $100

Due to the actions of some school districts in the past, the Masons had to dictate that the money goes to the team, not the school.

I also disagree with this idea. The teams that need it are teams that are more active. Last I checked, there weren't that many tournaments down here compared to up north. If a team wants to raise money, they should run a tournament, fundraise, or something of the like. This seems like a "handout" to teams around here, with the message "here, you guys suck, so we'll help you out." I acknowledge that there are few teams from around here that can compete with the best from the north. That doesn't justify Dale Thayer giving a big middle finger to the suburban schools.

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Post by ktour84 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:02 pm

Due to the actions of some school districts in the past, the Masons had to dictate that the money goes to the team, not the school.

I also disagree with this idea. The teams that need it are teams that are more active. Last I checked, there weren't that many tournaments down here compared to up north. If a team wants to raise money, they should run a tournament, fundraise, or something of the like. This seems like a "handout" to teams around here, with the message "here, you guys suck, so we'll help you out." I acknowledge that there are few teams from around here that can compete with the best from the north. That doesn't justify Dale Thayer giving a big middle finger to the suburban schools.
The Masons have the right idea as far as giving the prize money to the teams directly rather than the schools. When my team won our regional and placed at state in 2001, our prize money disappeared into the school's general fund. That mistake wasn't made in 2003 when it went directly to our team for buzzers and scholarship money for the seniors.

For some programs, it's a lot of work to fundraise and run tournaments because of lack of interest and staffing issues. It's quite a bit of work just to run IHSA regionals and sectionals. Setting aside Masonic winnings for scholarships and team awards seems to be the fairest solutions.

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Post by the return of AHAN » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:39 am

Tegan wrote:Downstate people in general don't care too much for upstaters, but when people in this neck of the woods see an obvious and blatant undeserving team advancing over 1, 2 or more teams from our area that so obviously should have, it relly helps to develop an attitude of "they advanced only because of where they are, not because of who they are. It is very hard to teach against that, because you preach "work hard, and you will be rewarded", and the IHSA, claiming to do in this in the name of educational philosophy, permits the undeservingto be consiously rewarded.

When that downstate team makes it that does actually deserrve to advance, there are some who can't get it out of their heads. Sadly, this system feeds a prejudice.
OK, as a native of St.Clair County, I take exception here.
1.) 'Downstate people' harbor a disdain for Chicagoans, but it's reserved for the Cubs fans, by and large.
2.) Are you somehow advocating that the IHSA not divvy up into sectionals and just make the scholastic bowl playoffs into one giant, seeded tournament? One where New Trier would open up against, say, East St. Louis?
3.) Football teams from southern Illinois haven't won a large class state championship since 1990. Is there an outcry in that activity, too, against class 5A/6A teams from southern Illinois effectively being guaranteed a quarterfinal slot in the state series?
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Post by Tegan » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:28 am

BarringtonJP wrote: OK, as a native of St.Clair County, I take exception here.
1.) 'Downstate people' harbor a disdain for Chicagoans, but it's reserved for the Cubs fans, by and large.
Smarmy as they are with their platinum toothpicks ...... Can't blame 'em for that.
BarringtonJP wrote:2.) Are you somehow advocating that the IHSA not divvy up into sectionals and just make the scholastic bowl playoffs into one giant, seeded tournament? One where New Trier would open up against, say, East St. Louis?
No. However, there needs to be some geographic limits, but here are some options:

1. Call upon a learned group to rank the top teams, and if it is geographically feasible, separate them. This is far from difficult to do.

2. When the teams advance to state, this group can then seed the final 8. I've lost track of the number of teams who walk off the stage with those big ol' State Trophies, and simply don't deserve them ..... the only reason they get them are because of the luck of he draw, and the fact that more deserving team

BarringtonJP wrote:3.) Football teams from southern Illinois haven't won a large class state championship since 1990. Is there an outcry in that activity, too, against class 5A/6A teams from southern Illinois effectively being guaranteed a quarterfinal slot in the state series?
Football is a whole other entity. If you are in a weak quadrant, then you should make it to the state quarters, but likely no further ..... though the entire bracket is seeded at the earliest level. Scholastic Bowl is not

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Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:21 am

There is not always a dichotomy between Good Suburban vs Bad Downstate teams. The killer pool last year contained Bloomington, Carbondale, and Rockford Auburn (which some people consider downstate because it is not in the Chicagoland Area), while the other pool contained four suburban teams. The year before that, Carbondale won a pool that, though it was the weaker pool, still contained strong teams--nobody doubts that Carbondale would have received at least 3rd Place and that Wheaton North would have still been in 4th Place if the entire tournament was a big Round Robin, and Bloomington probably would have gotten 5th.

If the top eight teams every year were Northern teams, then Tom's proposal above would be impractical--no team should have to drive from Chicagoland down to Springfield to play three matches on a Tuesday night. If you added a stipulation that at least two of the eight AA teams had to be from South of I-80 and at least four North of I-80, however, it would not change the list of teams selected significantly because there are always some top teams downstate. Some of the biggest inbalances are between neighboring suburban Sectionals. However, the IHSA has made it clear that the situation will never be addressed.
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Post by the return of AHAN » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:57 pm

Tegan wrote:No. However, there needs to be some geographic limits, but here are some options:

1. Call upon a learned group to rank the top teams, and if it is geographically feasible, separate them. This is far from difficult to do.
Sure it is. Just who decides who is "learned"? And so let's say it's decided Fremd, Loyola, and Stevenson can't be together. Where do they go? The Marist sectional? If so, do such teams still get the chance to host regionals as a top seed? I'm sure Summit Argo would love to drive all the way to Stevenson just to go one and done when Bolingbrook can dispatch them just as easily.
Tegan wrote: 2. When the teams advance to state, this group can then seed the final 8.
But how do you compare teams that have virtually no common opponents? Say O'Fallon beats Carbondale this year. Where are you going to rank them? They're not even listed in the Byko rankings. A blind draw is the only real option.
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Post by Siverus Snape » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:17 am

We left early, so can anyone tell me the results of the Wheaton North fresh-soph tournament?

David Riley
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Post by David Riley » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:52 am

Wheaton North results:

1. Fremd
2. Fenwick
3. St. Ignatius
4. Stevenson

Tegan
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Post by Tegan » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:21 pm

All I'm saying is that the IHSA says :"we don't care how hard you work and what you have accomplished, we aren't even going to make an effort to try and give the better teams a chance to advance". I say there are ways that it can be done with limited addition to travel for teams.

As for "who is learned"? I think it would be easy to find a group of coaches with demonstrated experience and interest. Even if there were no learned people, once the teams get to state, seed based on record. Let the 8 coaches down state seed like they do at regionals and vote based on record.

David Riley
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Post by David Riley » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:01 pm

So why not have an IHSSBCA-sponsored state championship? Anyone can come, but if they do, they should be prepared for battle!

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Deviant Insider
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Post by Deviant Insider » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:02 pm

There already is a well-run State Championship in Illinois. It's called NAQT, and it attracts six schools every year.
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PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

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Stephen Colbert
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St. Anthony Brain Strain: Results

Post by Stephen Colbert » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:44 pm

Though I wasn't involved/present, here are some unofficial results from early in the junior high season, for anyone interested, as heard through the grapevine.

2008 St. Anthony "Brain Strain" Results (January 26, 2008)

FIRST: Normal Metcalf
SECOND: Ottawa St. Columba
THIRD: Streator St. Anthony
FOURTH: Streator Northlawn

I believe the next tournament action will take place on February 9th at Normal Metcalf's Sweetheart Tournament & Ottawa Wallace's "Just Solve It" Tournament.

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JackGlerum
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Post by JackGlerum » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:59 pm

I promote the Scholastic "Bowl Championship Series" in which only two teams duke it out and everyone endlessly complains about the flawed system only leading to further scobowl chaos. Sponsored too. You know, the "Homer's Ice Cream Jesuit Bowl" and the "Northbrook Renaissance Hotels Bowl."

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