Results: Penn Bowl 2008 (1/26/2008)

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Results: Penn Bowl 2008 (1/26/2008)

Post by Lapego1 » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:16 pm

This is the announcement for Penn Bowl 2008 to be held January 26, 2008 at the University of Pennsylvania. If interested, please sign up for the listserv at http://dolphin.upenn.edu/~padt/pennbowl/. All packet guidelines can be found at http://www.hsquizbowl.org/pennbowl2008.html, though I will summarize pertinent info below.

The editing team will be headed by Matt Weiner, who can be reached at weinerm at vcu dot edu. All packets should be submitted to him, as should any questions pertaining to packet format or mirrors. Other questions about the tournament should be directed to Penn Academic Demolition Team President Simon Kleinsorge at padt at dolphin dot upenn dot edu.

Pertinent monetary discounts/penalties are as follows and will be applied to registration fees:
Submitted by November 25: -$50
Submitted by December 9: -$20
Submitted by December 23: $0
Submitted by December 30 +$20
Submitted by January 6 +$50
No packet submitted by January 6: Dropped from tournament or charged an exorbitant amount to play, depending on field size.

Teams comprised entirely of players who did not play a regular collegiate academic tournament prior to September 1, 2006 do not have to submit packets. However, you have the option of submitting a packet if you want to, under this schedule:

Submitted by December 9: -$50
Submitted by December 30: -$20

The general distribution is as follows, though there are specific subcategories found at the website above:
Literature 5/5
History 5/5
Science 5/5
Religion, Mythology and Philosophy 3/3
Fine Arts 3/3
Social Science 1/1
Geography 1/1
Trash, current events, or your choice 1/1

Details regarding registration info, specific locations, tournament format, etc. are forthcoming. You can post tentative registrations or questions here or direct them to the people above.
Last edited by Lapego1 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Lapego1 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:27 am

Fee structure:
Base: 1st Team: $110 2nd Team: $90 After 2nd: $70

Equipment/Personnel Discounts:
1st fully functional buzzer: -$10; each additional functional buzzer: -$15
1st competent moderator: -$20; each additional competent moderator: -$25

Travel Discounts per Team (as determined by mapquest):
>500 miles (one way): -$10
>700 miles (one way): -$30
>1000 miles (one way): -$50
>2000 miles (one way): -$70
Canadian Teams (one way): -$50

Missed last year's Penn Bowl: -$10

Min Fee $50

Registrations should be sent to Simon Kleinsorge at padt-at-dolphin-dot-upenn-edu. Also, just as a reminder for anyone remotely interested in attending, please sign up for the listserv at the website mentioned in the above post. It is our best way of contacting those interested.

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Post by vandyhawk » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:07 pm

So what kind of field is Penn Bowl likely going to have this year? We've gone to Michigan MLK the past few years as a chance to compete outside the southeast in a strong field, but since MLK weekend is later this year, I can't make it to any MLK/TIT events (hopefully my teammates will drive to a more local mirror still). Based on our last Penn Bowl experience ('05?), and news from last year, and I mean on the logistics and not questions, I'm somewhat reluctant to have us spend a bunch of money to fly up if it's not going to be a good sized field, with hopefully improved logistics as well. The FSU mirror isn't out of the question, but it may actually be harder to do Tallahassee than Philadelphia for us.

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Post by Gautam » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:49 am

You can drive up to Truman State perhaps?
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Post by DumbJaques » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:22 am

Matt -
From what I hear last year's Penn Bowl was par for the course in terms of organization and logistics. If Mehdi is in charge this year, you can expect that to change - he's run two perfectly smooth tournaments at Governor's School and is extremely responsible. More importantly, I'm sure he's perfectly willing to get and use a little advice from people who've run lots of college tournaments, and I know how dedicate he and the other younger Penn players are to turning around some of those negative preconceptions.

In terms of questions, if Matt's writing again (I'm pretty positive he is), I'd expect a solid effort - personally, I really liked Titanomachy, although there were the issues with it almost not happening. Maybe it'll be some kind of packet submission?

In short, I think Penn Bowl, if people have confidence in the new logistics people and the questions, could draw an excellent field - I'd say pretty much the field of Parfait, which would benefit greatly from Vanderbilt's presence. Maybe Chicago might entertain thoughts of coming down?
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Post by The Time Keeper » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:45 am

DumbJaques wrote: In terms of questions, if Matt's writing again (I'm pretty positive he is), I'd expect a solid effort - personally, I really liked Titanomachy, although there were the issues with it almost not happening. Maybe it'll be some kind of packet submission?
READ THE FIRST POST

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Post by DumbJaques » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:51 am

You people are always asking the impossible. You're lucky things I post end up in the right thread.
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Post by Lapego1 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:32 pm

Bump. There is a little less than a week left to submit packets to Matt Weiner without incurring any penalties (see first post for specifications). Several teams have already signed up and we hope for a pretty good-sized field. Also a disclaimer: I'm not officially TD for this tournament. Right now, Simon is working hard on most of the behind-the-scenes stuff. Nonetheless, I'll be there the day of the tournament and do everything I can beforehand to make sure it doesn't suck.

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Post by The Logic of Scientific Disco » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:06 pm

Can we get a field update?

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Post by Mike Bentley » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:21 am

I believe the bottom of http://dolphin.upenn.edu/~padt/pennbowl/index.htm has the most recent field update.
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Post by Matt Weiner » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:55 am

As of the allegedly final packet deadline, I have received the following submitted packets for Penn Bowl and its mirrors:

Maryland a
Maryland b
Minnesota a
Minnesota b
Missouri S&T
MIT
North Carolina A
Princeton A
South Florida
Temple A
VCU

I have also received 80% of a Vanderbilt packet and satisfactory explanations from Brandeis and Columbia.

If your packet was sent but is not on this list, get in touch with me and I'll figure out what happened. If you are planning to play the tournament, are required to submit a packet, and have not attempted to do so, get in touch with me and the TD of whatever site you are attending very soon, so we can tell you what your situation is--it is still possible to write a packet and just get charged some more money on top of the +$50. We do need time to edit these rounds properly, so at some point (probably around a week from now) teams who were supposed to write but did not will be told that they need to pay a massive penalty and not bother writing, or that they can't play at all.
Last edited by Matt Weiner on Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Dartmouth College Bowl » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:45 am

Matt, I believe the packets we sent to you were ACF Regionals packets. I am sorry if there was any confusion about this.

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Post by Matt Weiner » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:29 pm

Dartmouth College Bowl wrote:Matt, I believe the packets we sent to you were ACF Regionals packets. I am sorry if there was any confusion about this.
Yeah, that'll teach me to use the same email account for two tournaments...list corrected.

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Post by Lapego1 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:14 pm

In case you haven't check the website, the field is posted below. If you can't come for whatever reason or even think you can't, please give Simon a heads up (padt at dolphin dot upenn dot edu) so we can plan the format accordingly. The same goes for if weather might be an issue for you. In the Philly area, snow is forecasted for early next week, but it should subside well before the weekend.

Field (19 teams, assuming everyone who was supposed to write has submitted):
Brandeis
CMU
Columbia
Cornell
MIT
Princeton (3)
Swarthmore (2)
Temple (2)
Maryland (3)
UNC (2)
Vanderbilt
VCU
EDIT: See below post for possible extended registration.
Last edited by Lapego1 on Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by pray for elves » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Brandeis is sending a team. Did you not get my messages to you?

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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:34 pm

Lapego1 wrote:the field is finalized at 18 teams.
That sucks, we were thinking of coming but school only started back up today (and we've been focused on TIT plans this weekend) so I couldn't really find out the interest level. Oh well.
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Post by Lapego1 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:16 pm

DeisEvan wrote:Brandeis is sending a team. Did you not get my messages to you?
Yeah, I was wondering why you wrote a packet but weren't registered. I was just reposting what I saw on the website, which Simon updates. I've e-mailed him about it to make sure we're on the same page, but if you wrote a packet, then you have a right to play.
Zip Zap Rap Pants wrote:That sucks, we were thinking of coming but school only started back up today (and we've been focused on TIT plans this weekend) so I couldn't really find out the interest level. Oh well.
Well, you still would've had to write a packet by January 6, as the editing team needs enough time to work (unless Matt W. grants you permission otherwise). As far as I'm concerned, if you (or anyone else) still want to play without writing a packet and would be willing to pay the penalty money (at least $100 per team in addition to the other registration costs), I wouldn't be opposed to extending registration until Saturday by midnight as long as Simon okays it. It would need to be a definite registration because we'll want to finalize the format soon. This is assuming there are enough rooms reserved to accomodate extra teams, which should be the case.

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Post by Matt Weiner » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:23 pm

Everyone on WM except Darren should be packet-exempt, based on not playing a tournament before 9/1/06. If Darren wants to play, then WM should talk to me about how a packet might work.

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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:11 am

In no way will Darren be there, the only tournaments he may be able to make this semester AFAIK are Marvin Lee Aday and the MUT mirror at VCU (if non-undergrads are allowed there).

So yeah Mehdi let me know if the deadline is extended.
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Post by Lapego1 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:52 am

Registration will remain open until midnight this Sunday. If your team has to write a packet (i.e. at least one team member played a collegiate level tournament before 9/1/06), then you'll have to talk to Matt about that. I'll let him decide the exact dollar amount of the late penalty. Remember all registrations should be directed to Simon via e-mail at padt-at-dolphin-dot-upenn-dot-edu. This should include number of moderators, buzzers, and any other discounts/penalties that might apply. We'll probably be deciding on the exact tournament format by Monday or Tuesday, and details will go out to registered teams then as well.

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Post by Lapego1 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:35 pm

Final Field: 22 teams
Brandeis
CMU
Columbia
Cornell
MIT
Princeton (3)
Rutgers Newark
Swarthmore (2)
Temple (2)
Maryland (4)
UNC (2)
Vanderbilt
VCU
William and Mary

We have the field rounded out at 22 teams, and barring like 5 teams dropping out at the last minute, we will try to keep it that way. Registered teams should have received confirmations today.

Regarding the format, each team will play 10 round robin prelim rounds and have one bye. Teams will be re-divided into playoff brackets where they will play 3 additional rounds. Finals and tiebreakers will be played as necessary. Also, just so you know, we've gone through some of the complaints from previous years and put in necessary safeguards to prevent them from happening again. Look forward to seeing you all on Saturday.

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Post by sabine01 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:43 pm

Lapego1 wrote:Maryland (4)
Last I checked, we were sending only three teams, but will doublecheck with Mike...

Best,
Tricia
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Post by Lapego1 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:26 pm

sabine01 wrote: Last I checked, we were sending only three teams, but will doublecheck with Mike...
I believe the 4th is just a scab-like team to fill out the field. Let me know if the case is otherwise.

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Post by sabine01 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:29 pm

4th team confirmed. Sorry for the bother...
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Post by Lapego1 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:58 am

Just some final things:
Everyone should please try to be at Logan Hall G17 between 9:00 and 9:30, as we will have a brief meeting and then start rounds right away. We really don't have too much time to waste, so everyone should be there on time. We will have tasty breakfast available.

Parking is available on the street, but I don't think it's cheap, so you may as well park in any nearby parking garage. Both interactive and printable maps are found here: http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/mapsBldgs/. We'll be playing in Williams which is adjacent to Logan.These buildings are at 36th and Spruce.

We'll give you a list of food places, but they're pretty self-explanatory and you'll see a lot as you make youre way to the area. Everything is walkable distance. There's a Wawa on 38th and Spruce, and Houston Hall which is between 34th and 36th on Spruce has a wide variety of foods.

One last note: If you're bringing moderators, try to bring a laptop as we will be reading questions off computer. We'll have hard copies available too just in case.

Okay, that's pretty much it. We hope to be done by 7pm if everything goes completely smoothly, but we have the buildings until later if necessary. Any more questions should go to padt-at-dolphin-dot-upenn-dot-edu as usual. Thanks. See you all Saturday.

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Post by Lapego1 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:52 pm

We had 22 teams as planned (after the formation of some scab teams). After the bracketed round robin, Princeton A (10-0), Vanderbilt (10-0), Maryland A (9-1), UNC A (9-1), MIT (7-3), and Carnegie Mellon (7-3) entered the championship bracket, where only records against other teams in that bracket counted. In the end Maryland and Vanderbilt were tied at 4-1, so a championship round was held where Maryland emerged the victor 340-145.

Results in championship bracket:
1. Maryland A 5-1
2. Vanderbilt 4-2
3. Princeton A 3-2
4t. MIT 2-3
4t. UNC A 2-3
6. Carnegie Mellon 0-5

The stats are done, but I'm going to just have Matt post them as I don't have web hosting capabilities. Should hopefully be up soon. Thanks to everyone who came to help out today including Matt Weiner, Dwight Kidder, Katy from Vanderbilt, and the various Maryland people and friends who helped fill out the field.

Thanks for being patient with our young team, and hopefully everyone came out with a positive experience (particularly compared to last year). Let us know if we can do anything to make a better experience for you all next year. We hope to see you then!
Last edited by Lapego1 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:16 am

Stats for the prelims are at http://hsquizbowl.org/pennbowl2008/penn ... dings.html . The question set is not being used in any future tournaments and will be posted here shortly, so feel free to discuss whatever you'd like. I apologize for the typos and stray words and the fact that the history bonuses in that one packet weren't edited due to me losing track of them, but aside from those issues I was pretty happy with how the set turned out. I want to particularly commend science editor Billy Beyer who produced what I think was not only a consistently accessible bunch of science questions but also the best-edited science for any tournament of this difficulty level that I've seen. I will have some thoughts on such issues as the virtues/drawbacks of the six-line tossup, how the tournament guidelines influenced the look of the submissions and the final packets, and so forth, in the next few days.

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Post by pray for elves » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:35 am

There are some inaccuracies in the stats - for instance, against Maryland B, I was 10/0 and Hannah was 4/0, and not vice-versa. My papers with the accurate stats for us are in my car right now, but I can send you corrections later if you'd like to fix the stats. I'm sure other people have other corrections, too.

Thanks to Penn and Matt for putting on a well-run tournament, although I will say that having a tournament where you need card access to enter should be avoided in the future if it's possible (I don't know if there was another place the tournament could have been held).

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Post by sabine01 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:40 pm

DeisEvan wrote:There are some inaccuracies in the stats - for instance, against Maryland B, I was 10/0 and Hannah was 4/0, and not vice-versa. My papers with the accurate stats for us are in my car right now, but I can send you corrections later if you'd like to fix the stats. I'm sure other people have other corrections, too.
Confirmed. Was by myself and did not buzz a lick during that round. Also have stats if needed.

~T~
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Post by sabine01 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:15 pm

Now, I fully realize the members of the D team who had flaked are a partial cause of this, but one quibble: With three "house" (for lack of a better description) teams with only 1-2 players on them, and two Maryland teams having to subdivide in order to round out the field...

I just wonder, in terms of scheduling, if any of these teams could have been combined or excised.

Heck... we were told the moderator we brought was needed to staff; instead he was playing solo on one of the house teams. This particular moderator also had many years of officiating experience under his belt, and to him it didn't seem like that was even taken into consideration. It seemed like the only consideration given there was "well, we need bodies to fill out the field."

While I realize that packets are also a limiting factor as far as scheduling is concerned, it seemed like there were enough teams that didn't write packets to excise enough teams to get to nine in each division, saving two rounds' worth of packets (figuring: excising one of the Maryland Teams and all of the "house" teams).

With all these factors in play, the intuitive in me wonders why exactly combining/excising teams could not be done; it just seems quite a bit odd (and a little bit wasteful of human resources) to me.

Otherwise, a very well-run tournament.

Best,
Tricia
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PS - (And hey... if our mod wasn't exactly needed to staff, we could have used him on our already-ineligible team ;) ...)
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Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:22 pm

What happened with all the extra teams was that, at one point, there were 21 "real" teams coming, so I asked Maryland to create an extra team to make it 22 in order to create a more ideal format. There were like nine more last-minute additions and drops after that, leading to a situation where we ultimately had only 19 true teams (counting both Maryland C and D who were originally one team). I hadn't though of asking Maryland to re-collapse those teams, since I wasn't anticipating that they would both be shorthanded. 18 teams would have worked fine, though. But since as of the day before the tournament I thought we are at 19 teams, I asked Penn to help get 3 fill-in teams together in order to run the 22-team schedule.

If something similar happens in the future I will definitely ask how many people are on each team and try to combine back to the lower feasible number.

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Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:28 pm

Corrected stats have been posted.

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Post by vandyhawk » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:03 pm

Thanks to Penn and Matt for running a very enjoyable tournament. It got off to a bit of a rocky start, but went well after the first few rounds. Congrats to Maryland for giving us a good beatdown in the finals. Our first match-up in the playoff round robin was much closer, but they clearly showed they were the best team in that final match.

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Post by sabine01 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:27 pm

DeisEvan wrote: Thanks to Penn and Matt for putting on a well-run tournament, although I will say that having a tournament where you need card access to enter should be avoided in the future if it's possible (I don't know if there was another place the tournament could have been held).
Perhaps this is showing my fogeydom quite clearly, but do I recall this correctly?

Isn't this usual for Penn buildings during the weekends (I recall this restricted access being in place for the '99 NSC... )?

~T~
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Post by pray for elves » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:38 pm

sabine01 wrote:
DeisEvan wrote: Thanks to Penn and Matt for putting on a well-run tournament, although I will say that having a tournament where you need card access to enter should be avoided in the future if it's possible (I don't know if there was another place the tournament could have been held).
Perhaps this is showing my fogeydom quite clearly, but do I recall this correctly?

Isn't this usual for Penn buildings during the weekends (I recall this restricted access being in place for the '99 NSC... )?

~T~
That's perfectly possible, as this was my first time at Penn. The only previous time I was likely to go to Penn was for Penn Bowl 2005, which we [luckily] backed out of due to weather.

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Post by Lapego1 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:44 pm

DeisEvan wrote: Thanks to Penn and Matt for putting on a well-run tournament, although I will say that having a tournament where you need card access to enter should be avoided in the future if it's possible (I don't know if there was another place the tournament could have been held).
Yeah, I'm only a freshman so I have some exploring to do still, but every building I know of requires swiping in after hours (i.e. the weekend). For next year, the hope is to use a building that has both an auditorium and game rooms so you don't have to go back and forth after announcements.

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Post by Lapego1 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:25 pm

The playoff stats have been sent to Matt and should be up soon. The records shown are only the records against teams in the bracket. The Lower Division bracket kind of got messed up because games ended up behind by one round somehow, and the games not on the stats were just exhibition games with random teams.

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Post by Matt Weiner » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:50 am

Playoff stats are at

http://hsquizbowl.org/pennbowl2008/penn ... dings.html .

This includes the two carry-over games for each team from the prelims, the three crossover playoff games, and the final game between Maryland and Vanderbilt.

The order of finish displayed there is correct, since ties were broken on PPG. Thus, the final Penn Bowl 2008 standings:

1. Maryland A
2. Vanderbilt
3. Princeton A
4. North Carolina A
5. MIT
6. Carnegie Mellon
7. Maryland B
8. Cornell
9. Princeton B
10. Swarthmore A
11. VCU
12. Temple
13. Rutgers-Newark
14. Maryland C
15. Columbia
16. Maryland D
17. Brandeis
18. Cleveland Spiders
19. North Carolina B
20, Swarthmore B
21. St. Louis Browns
22. Seattle Pilots

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Matt Weiner
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Post by Matt Weiner » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:31 pm


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