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Players

Post by Ford08 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:36 am

So, I was just curious because i did not know where to put this or whether or not there was another thread like this so I just have a few questions.

1: Who do you all consider the Best Player on Pyramidal questions in the nation?

2: Who do you all consider the Best Team in the Nation on Pyramidal questions?

3: What do you all think the best tournament in the Nation is?
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Post by cornfused » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:00 am

That's so not-going-to-reach-a-consensus it's funny.

But I suppose there are a few strong candidates for player and one for team that really sticks out.

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Post by Tegan » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:35 am

slow computer = double post = bad
Last edited by Tegan on Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tegan » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:35 am

I'm with Cornfused here .... the southern teams will talk about their best tournaments and people, the East teams will talk about their best tournaments & people, the Midwest teams will talk about their best tournaments & people, and the west coast teams will talk about their best tournaments & people ...... since there is little crossover (maybe between some east and south teams), I don't think there will be anything here but conjecture and opinion.

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Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:05 pm

Since everyone else refuses to answer:

1) Dallas Simons (I apologize in advance if I misspelled that).

2) Dorman A.

3) NAQT HSNCT.
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Post by ieppler » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:14 pm

While I agree with what earlier posters in this thread said, I'll try it anyway.

1. Shantanu Jha, Whitman.

2. I really can't decide between Dorman A and Whitman. Dorman looked more impressive when I played them, but I last played Whitman in September on the local format of the DC area. I see them finishing 1-2 at both nationals. I'm just not sure in what order.

3. NAQT HSNCT.

Perhaps another national poll could be held?

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Post by aestheteboy » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:03 pm

All three answers involve shantanu.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:15 pm

1: Dallas Simmons-- this guy is a beast, and while Shantanu is certainly an awesome player, he doesn't quite match up.

2: Either Dorman (who has traveled the country and only accrued one loss throughout the year), or Whitman (the team that was able to beat Dorman, and has dominated the DC area of late.

3: NAQT HSNCT- for a combination of good question quality and good numbers, this can't be beat. PACE has equally good questions, but not as many teams participate.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:39 pm

Hopper wrote:Perhaps another national poll could be held?
I actually have been waiting until February to post one. It is now February. One should be up by tomorrow.
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Post by Youse Da Force » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:50 pm

1. Joe Wells. Just ask anyone.

2. Lowelville Local. They're sweet.

3. The OAC State Championship. No format in the country can match up.

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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:48 pm

leftsaidfred wrote:
Hopper wrote:Perhaps another national poll could be held?
I actually have been waiting until February to post one. It is now February. One should be up by tomorrow.
Maybe we could do an individual poll as well as a team poll.
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Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:49 pm

Youse Da Force wrote:1. Joe Wells. Just ask anyone.

2. Lowelville Local. They're sweet.

3. The OAC State Championship. No format in the country can match up.
The funny thing is, I don't know whether to take this seriously or not.
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Post by The 2007 San Diego Padres » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:51 pm

SwissBoy wrote:Maybe we could do an individual poll as well as a team poll.
NO DON'T

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Post by BuzzerZen » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:23 pm

The 2007 San Diego Padres wrote:
SwissBoy wrote:Maybe we could do an individual poll as well as a team poll.
NO DON'T
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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:26 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:
The 2007 San Diego Padres wrote:
SwissBoy wrote:Maybe we could do an individual poll as well as a team poll.
NO DON'T
Yeah, you guys are probably right. Organizing that would be a problem, and most people don't know opposing players the way they know opposing teams.
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Post by gonzagaeagleahy » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:55 am

Because I can't decide on one or two i'll just answer three.
3) PACE NSC. I like it a lot more than HSNCT cuz i think it's more knowledge based overall and i like it. A lot. For reasons I don't really know. I think bouncing back is good too.
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Post by DrakeRQB » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:09 am

1. Charlie Dees or Nick Clusserath, going off players I've seen in person
2. Dorman A
3. PACE NSC
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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:24 am

BuzzerZen wrote:
The 2007 San Diego Padres wrote:
SwissBoy wrote:Maybe we could do an individual poll as well as a team poll.
NO DON'T
yay the padres are back
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Post by BobGHHS » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:21 pm

Andy,
Don't take what Dan said personally...

The Lowellville thing was a post they put on the Ohio board that basically said "Lowellville is sweet... discuss" and ended up being just us bashing them ridiculously.

Joe Wells is the ghetto-fied funksta on our team... he is our #2 guy, so if he can't even beat Dan at anything besides TRASH, he's definitely not the best.

And the comment about the OAC State Championship.. the only reason to keep it around is because it determines who gets to go to PAC from Ohio (and while the format may be whack, the trip is fun)

So again, don't take any of that seriously.
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Post by Ben_Dodson » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:46 pm

considering that most teams stay within their own region and do not play all the good teams around the country until nationals, this discussion doesn't really go beyond "who's the best player/team in your region". anything beyond that is just bad speculation.

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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:52 pm

Ben_Dodson wrote:considering that most teams stay within their own region and do not play all the good teams around the country until nationals, this discussion doesn't really go beyond "who's the best player/team in your region". anything beyond that is just bad speculation.
Or people could actually study statistics and speak with people who have seen the players in question first hand.
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Post by The Time Keeper » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:06 pm

Ben_Dodson wrote:considering that most teams stay within their own region and do not play all the good teams around the country until nationals, this discussion doesn't really go beyond "who's the best player/team in your region". anything beyond that is just bad speculation.
There is a whole lot of communication going on between regions. Whether from just looking up detailed stats to having online discussions, most good teams know what's going on around the country. The interaction between quizbowl players of different areas and levels is pretty understated when it comes to conveying information and ideas about quizbowl. The teams often referred to as being the best tend to be the ones most involved in the community and therefore best able to judge amongst themselves.

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Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:39 pm

BobGHHS wrote:Andy,
Don't take what Dan said personally...

The Lowellville thing was a post they put on the Ohio board that basically said "Lowellville is sweet... discuss" and ended up being just us bashing them ridiculously.

Joe Wells is the ghetto-fied funksta on our team... he is our #2 guy, so if he can't even beat Dan at anything besides TRASH, he's definitely not the best.

And the comment about the OAC State Championship.. the only reason to keep it around is because it determines who gets to go to PAC from Ohio (and while the format may be whack, the trip is fun)

So again, don't take any of that seriously.
Yeah, I've made quite a few jokes about my state's format. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Post by ragnarok2012 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:05 pm

1. Dalles Simmons

2. Dorman A

3. NAQT

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Post by NKCtrashman » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:59 pm

Charles Dees (dominated Dallas Simons head to head at Vandy) Also i haven't seen a lot of east coast players, so forgive my bias.

Dorman A Again haven't played Whitman and the like

A tournament not in Missouri

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Post by catsasslippers » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:09 pm

I know I'm biased, but I am surprised no one has mentioned Doug yet. I realize he hasn't played in a large tournament since Harvard, but at Hunter he had 124 ppg and just over 6 powers per game.

That being said my other top pick would have to be Charlie Dees.
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Post by 49-Mile Scenic Drive » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:13 pm

Best Player - Dallas Simons

Best Team - Dorman A

Best Tournament - Any tournament that isn't ASCA (As Andy said above, our state format is joked about often)

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Post by dyetman89 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:31 pm

NKCtrashman wrote:Charles Dees (dominated Dallas Simons head to head at Vandy)
I saw this one coming. Let me say, though, that Dallas really seems to dominate the NAQT format a good deal more than mACF or PACE - the increased geography distro no doubt contributes.

No one's mentioned Kurtis Droge yet, probably because East Lansing hasn't really ventured out of Michigan much...at all. Still, he was really excellent at PACE last year (a good deal better, I thought, than he was at the HSNCT), and at least one person has spoken up and said he's improved since then. Not a player to take lightly.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:53 pm

dyetman89 wrote:
NKCtrashman wrote:Charles Dees (dominated Dallas Simons head to head at Vandy)
I saw this one coming. Let me say, though, that Dallas really seems to dominate the NAQT format a good deal more than mACF or PACE - the increased geography distro no doubt contributes.
Really? If I recall, Dallas virtually single-handedly brought a team to second place at PACE nationals last year, whereas he didn't even make quarters at the HSNCT.
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Post by Matt Weiner » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:55 pm

SwissBoy wrote:Really? If I recall, Dallas virtually single-handedly brought a team to second place at PACE nationals last year, whereas he didn't even make quarters at the HSNCT.
Not to take anything away from a very good player, but actually he only scored about half of his team's tossup points in the NSC playoffs:

http://pace-nsc.org/results/2007/2007ns ... il.html#t6

And I'm not sure what how much meaning the non-top 2 spots have in an elimination-bracket system like NAQT's.

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Post by Gunnells » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:38 am

leftsaidfred wrote:
Ben_Dodson wrote:considering that most teams stay within their own region and do not play all the good teams around the country until nationals, this discussion doesn't really go beyond "who's the best player/team in your region". anything beyond that is just bad speculation.
Or people could actually study statistics and speak with people who have seen the players in question first hand.
If they rely on "speak[ing] with people who have seen the players in question first hand", they are essentially regurgitating someone else's opinion.

I have the advantage of sharing a circuit with the team most seem to consider the best in the nation, but I don't see how someone from Minnesota could differentiate Dorman's accomplishments from those of Eden Prairie. Even if you look at the encounters between Dorman and the schools from the DC area, it is an incredibly small sample size.

While "bad" speculation may be an overstatement, the process is largely a shot in the dark.

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:07 pm

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Post by Captain Sinico » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:29 pm

I noticed you didn't address the "consulting statistics" part of the argument. Also, considering and weighing what other people have said is in no way "essentially regurgitating someone else's opinion."

MaS
Gunnells wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote:
Ben_Dodson wrote:considering that most teams stay within their own region and do not play all the good teams around the country until nationals, this discussion doesn't really go beyond "who's the best player/team in your region". anything beyond that is just bad speculation.
Or people could actually study statistics and speak with people who have seen the players in question first hand.
If they rely on "speak[ing] with people who have seen the players in question first hand", they are essentially regurgitating someone else's opinion.

I have the advantage of sharing a circuit with the team most seem to consider the best in the nation, but I don't see how someone from Minnesota could differentiate Dorman's accomplishments from those of Eden Prairie. Even if you look at the encounters between Dorman and the schools from the DC area, it is an incredibly small sample size.

While "bad" speculation may be an overstatement, the process is largely a shot in the dark.
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Post by STPickrell » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:48 pm

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Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:23 pm

Gunnells - I didn't get a chance to respond to your earlier, but Mike Sorice took the words right out of mouth above.
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Post by Ben_Dodson » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:34 pm

ImmaculateDeception wrote:I noticed you didn't address the "consulting statistics" part of the argument. Also, considering and weighing what other people have said is in no way "essentially regurgitating someone else's opinion."

MaS
Wouldn't comparing a Minnesota team's accomplishments with a team from South Carolina essentially be "comparing the stats"? Just because it was not explicitly stated does not be it was not addressed.

Just wondering, in what way does "considering and weighing what other people have said in no way 'essentially regurgitating someone else's opinion.'" when you have had no experience with what is said? How does "weighing and considering" someone else's opinion in a circuit you've never been to involving teams you've never seen play, allow for your speculations to be all the more unique and precise? Even the statistics that Byko has done, while a great feat/accomplishment, does not do much in accurately comparing teams. Given that the statistics are too few and too regional, you're essentially basing your wonderfully insightful opinions on faulty data and someone else's opinion that you've "weighed and considered", whatever that even means. Now, inside a region in which you've encountered the same teams and played them multiple times, you have a better idea. Even then, tournaments are too few to offer enough matches for one to say "this team is definitely better than this one" once you enter the upper echelons. I personally don't care if you guys want to enter a debate as to how your opinions are surely founded on iron logic and infallible statistics. However, for anyone to think that comparing teams on a national level with any degree of accuracy is possible, then you are only fooling yourself.

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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:13 pm

Ben_Dodson wrote: Wouldn't comparing a Minnesota team's accomplishments with a team from South Carolina essentially be "comparing the stats"? Just because it was not explicitly stated does not be it was not addressed.

Just wondering, in what way does "considering and weighing what other people have said in no way 'essentially regurgitating someone else's opinion.'" when you have had no experience with what is said? How does "weighing and considering" someone else's opinion in a circuit you've never been to involving teams you've never seen play, allow for your speculations to be all the more unique and precise? Even the statistics that Byko has done, while a great feat/accomplishment, does not do much in accurately comparing teams. Given that the statistics are too few and too regional, you're essentially basing your wonderfully insightful opinions on faulty data and someone else's opinion that you've "weighed and considered", whatever that even means. Now, inside a region in which you've encountered the same teams and played them multiple times, you have a better idea. Even then, tournaments are too few to offer enough matches for one to say "this team is definitely better than this one" once you enter the upper echelons. I personally don't care if you guys want to enter a debate as to how your opinions are surely founded on iron logic and infallible statistics. However, for anyone to think that comparing teams on a national level with any degree of accuracy is possible, then you are only fooling yourself.
Actually, there have been quite a few tournaments that featured reasonable cross-pollination, like Harvard's and to a lesser extent, the Thomas Jefferson Tournaments (those only really canvassed the area from New York to North Carolina). Also, thanks to intrepid teams like Dorman, NKC, and DCC, who all have traveled to places far outside their regions, we have some links between many of the regional circuits, and thus can actually form some picture of the relative skills of the powerhouses of the various regions. Though a few teams, like Wheaton North and Eden Prairie have not left their regions so far this year, and thus impede this, we actually can form a picture of sorts right now. Furthermore, many teams will return a lot of players who appeared in last year's National Tournaments, so we can factor that into comparisons as well.
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Post by Rountree » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:53 pm

This game isn't about individuals, so I can't answer question 1.

Dorman is the best team in the nation based on what I have seen personally and what I have read about on this forum.

Brookwood puts on an amazing tournament every year (as does Dorman by the way). Brookwood routinely has one of the largest high school tournaments in the country yet it runs flawlessly and always has good questions and competition.

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Re: Players

Post by Arc 209 » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:10 am

1. Dallas Simons- Dude's a beast pure and simple.
2. Dorman- Watching them play is like hearing the first three words and them getting the question.
3. NAQT HSNCT- mainly because it's format is ingrained in me.

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Re: Players

Post by cornfused » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:40 pm

Neeeeeecccccro!
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Re: Players

Post by vcuEvan » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:48 pm

MY NAME IS OZYMANDIAS KING OF QUIZBOWL. LOOK UPON MY POWERS AND DESPAIR.

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Re: Players

Post by Sonic the Hedgehog and the Fox » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:58 am

1. Dallas Simmons. In all honesty, the man is competent in pretty much every subject. From Quantum Physics to 1974 events in the life of Mel Gibson, he knows it. Okay, maybe not events in the life of Mel Gibson, but you get my point.

2. Dorman A. The massacred us at WoQ...yesterday, in fact. The only reason we didn't have a negative score was because of some strange thing that Dorman negged on and an R. Kelly question. That didn't stop them from beating us by something like 480 points. I've seen them play other teams who aren't as...unreliable as us, and it's still somewhat like what they did to us.

3. NAQT. Need I say more?
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Re: Players

Post by Stat Boy » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:29 pm

RH_Factor wrote:3. NAQT. Need I say more?
Umm...yes?
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Re: Players

Post by First Chairman » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:32 am

WOQ: I speak for myself but I think I reflect a lot of people's opinions that Shantanu was really impressive and should deserve to be in a conversation on this thread. Indeed, I think we saw a good handful of stellar players who deserve mention here (Guy, Doug Y, and so on).
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Re: Players

Post by The Atom Strikes! » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:51 pm

I also was impressed by Shantanu's performance, especially on Day One's harder Science distribution. Dallas, Doug, and Guy also performed magnificently. (Dallas and Cody seem to have come with their family this weekend. Is that a 3rd brother in the pipeline?)
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Re: Players

Post by ClemsonQB » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:19 pm

I would have liked to see how Shantanu would have done on Sunday, but of those in attendence, it seemed like Henry really dominated with those 37 powers.
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Re: Players

Post by gtb12 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:31 pm

elrountree wrote:This game isn't about individuals, so I can't answer question 1.
I can't agree with that more enough. I'm on a pretty good team that is unfortunately limited in terms of tournaments attended though, so I wouldn't be able to answer it anyways.

However, in response to #3: NAQT HS NCT, hands down. Well planned-out (card exchange seeding system), organized, quality questions (some probably written only a few days/weeks before use, as I realized when I went), number of teams, atmosphere, etc. But of course, it's not like my team ever tried out any other formats...

The Atom Strikes!
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Re: Players

Post by The Atom Strikes! » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:44 pm

quizbowlabc wrote:I would have liked to see how Shantanu would have done on Sunday, but of those in attendence, it seemed like Henry really dominated with those 37 powers.
I did play well on Sunday, thanks to my ability to use lateral thinking well and my skills in Geography and Current events. But as a team, on NAQT, you guys on Dorman pretty much dominated. I'm guessing that we would have lost to you in the final, had we played.
Henry Gorman, Wilmington Charter '09, Rice '13, PhD History Vanderbilt '1X

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Ford08
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Re: Players

Post by Ford08 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:37 pm

Charles Dees is probabley going to be the best player that I have ever seen. Though the way you talk Simmions is no slouch.

Dorman

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Down and out in Quintana Roo
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Re: Players

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:41 am

As a quiz bowl player in high school (for 4 years) and college, and now a coach at my alma mater for the third year... Henry Gorman is the best player i've ever seen.

And we still have to put up with him for one more year after this.

Here's hoping he doesn't fail his senior year just to beat everybody again.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

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