Illinois '07-'08

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Tegan
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

I'll reserve my ranting for a more private setting.

2007-08 ends with the following statistics:
1,009 All-Sectional awards conferred in seven years to players at 268 schools
282 All-State awards conferred in seven years to players at 119 schools

Greg Gauthier is the third player to earn All-State honors thrice, and the first to win all three awards as a First Team member.

Joining the First Team, twice awarded club:
Hunter Fast
Andrew Friedman
Lian States
Siva Sundaram

Joining the twice All-State club (once second, once first):
John Brown
Aaron Deets
Catie Flynn
William Szumski

Joining the three-time All-Sectional honoree list:
Catie Flynn
Greg Gauthier

Props to Coach Laird for running this impossibly difficult project.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Charley Pride »

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by JackGlerum »

Who is Jerome Dehnel? Anyone seen him play?

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Jerry Dehnel put up 59 PPG (2/46/3 in 8 games) at The Decemberist, where he was basically a one man team. They put up 12.5 PPB and lost to Dixon, Sterling, and Auburn.

To put this in perspective, Michael Jiang had 12/16/2 in 8 games, and he had Siva's 19/49/15 on his team. So....I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this small sample size says he's not that good of a player. Also, Rock Island didn't place at any other tournament this year. I'm honestly surprised he was voted higher than at least 7 members of the 2nd team.
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Maxwell Sniffingwell
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Maxwell Sniffingwell »

He's also the only All-Stater in Class AA (first or second team) that didn't make it to Sectionals...
Last edited by Maxwell Sniffingwell on Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by mlaird »

cornfused wrote:He's also one of two All-Staters in Class AA that didn't make it to Sectionals... the other being Paul Botros of Carbondale (second team.)
Carbondale made it to Sectionals... did Paul himself not make it?

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

styxman wrote:I'm honestly surprised he was voted higher than at least 7 members of the 2nd team.
Sadly, based on my history, I'm not. Unless, there's something else we don't know.

This will go down as a very weird year, indeed.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by ElizabethYork »

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:
theguy914 wrote:she answered every brit lit question within the first sentence. once after one word...
Is this really possible? If this did really occur in a match, could you tell me the word it was? Also, does Illinois announce category before reading the tossup? If so, maybe the answer space was sufficiently limited to allow for such a quick buzz. Maybe if it was a famous work or something, she could get it.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth York from Litchfield. It really did occur in a match, and I can remember two instances very well from the sectional tournament, both in the British Literature catagory. The first question began with the name, "Antipholus". I buzzed in and answered The Comedy of Errors, which was correct. Antipholus is the main character in Shakespeare's The Comedy of Errors. The question probably should have been worded better. The names of main characters in a literary work should be at the very end of the question, especially since the IHSA questions seemed to follow a fairly consistant pattern of starting out generally and becoming more specific at the end of the question.
The second question began with "Two christenings are scheduled..." I buzzed, and in the time between the moment I buzzed and when the buzzer actually lighted and the moderator stopped reading, the moderator read "for 5:30". I answered The Importance of Being Earnest, which was correct. This question did begin fairly ambiguously, and it might not have been wise of me to answer so early. However, The Importance of Being Earnest is my very favorite play, and when I heard "christenings", I immediately thought of Jack and Algie's attempts to be christened Ernest.

Thank you to those of you who complemented my British literature knowledge on this forum; that's so kind of you. I'm truely flattered, but kind of shocked too. :shock:

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Maxwell Sniffingwell »

mlaird wrote:
cornfused wrote:He's also the only All-Stater in Class AA (first or second team) that didn't make it to Sectionals...
Carbondale made it to Sectionals... did Paul himself not make it?
What? Yeah, that was a dumb misread of the ScoreZone.
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Tegan
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

ElizabethYork wrote: Hi, I'm Elizabeth York from Litchfield.
Welcome to the forums, Elizabeth. Congratulations on a great season (personally), and for your team. I hope you will continue on to whichever college you are heading to, and hope you will continue contributing here.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by the return of AHAN »

The vote for seeding have been tabulated and IESA Regional assignmentshave been made. Unlike IHSA, IESA doesn't (yet) post the seeds but I can glean that the following schools received #1 seeds within each sectional group, based on who is listed in the first square of each 6-team bracket:
Class AA
A = Barrington Station (#2 = Lincolnshire Daniel Wright (feeds Stevenson), #3 = Buffalo Grove Aptakisic (feeds Stevenson), #4 = Barrington Prairie, #5 = Vernon HIlls Hawthorn South (feeds Libertyville, Mundelein & Vernon Hills), #6 = Lake in the Hills Marlowe (feeds Huntley), #7 = Wadsworth Millburn (feeds Lakes, Grayslake North, & Warren), #8 = Cary JHS (feeds Cary-Grove))
B = Channahon
C = Lemont Old Quarry (I call shenanigans on this sectional... How does last year's state runner-up, River Forest Roosevelt, fail to earn a seed? They went 8-0 at the BIT, which was attended by 6 other teams in this sectional! Even if they were the only games they played, it shows SOMETHING)
D = Dunlap
E = Jacksonville Turner(? - This is a 4-team regional, so bracket was not drawn by IESA. Kind of basing this on what I know about them)
F = Forrest Prairie Central
G = Springfield Franklin
H = Toledo Cumberland (? - Bracket not posted, so this is an educated guess, too.)

Class A
A = Morris Nettle Creek
B = Roanoke-Benson
C = Peoria Heights
D = Paris Crestwood
E = ??? No bracket posted yet and I know nothing about these schools.
F = Springfield Ball Charter
G = Aviston
H = Altamont

I think I'm going to ask for publication of seed numbers for future regional assignments at this year's AdCo meeting.
Jeff Price
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Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
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JackGlerum
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by JackGlerum »

Tegan wrote:
ElizabethYork wrote: Hi, I'm Elizabeth York from Litchfield.
Welcome to the forums, Elizabeth.
Finally some new blood!

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Kanga-Rat Murder Society »

As one of his Buffalo Grove teammates, I find it hard to believe that there are 20 players in state better than Danny Bulmash. No player made as big of a difference for their team as he did for our team. Without him, we lost to McHenry, Conant, and Elk Grove and our overall record was 4-4 (counting a second loss to Elk Grove where he was taken out at halftime to give other Seniors playing time in our last meaningless game). With him we were 27-6 with our only unavenged losses coming to Stevenson, Carbondale, Loyola, and Wheaton North. He led us to a division title, conference title, and regional title. He was also All Tournament Team at New Trier. He also shined at the state series where he had more toss-ups than anyone else in every match, and though I have no exact figures, he probably averaged 8-10 toss-ups per match. To the IHSSBCA's credit, I can say that every person I have played who made All-State is deserving (though I have only played eight total in Class AA). The best solution is to combine All State into three ten player teams. With this solution, no great Class AA players would be left out while good Class A players get in.
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by BGSO »

Nick, this needs to stop read this:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5114

B/c you fit under it like no other
David Garb-
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Former member of the most dysfunctional scholastic bowl team in Illinois.
(11:23:30 PM) garb: Wait, are you talking about the porn or the reeses?

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

Let's all be one with each other for a moment.

'''BGSO''' you are being a good teammate looking out for a fellow player. As a former coach, I respect that.

'''BG MSL CHAMP''' I don't find anything particularly bad or upsetting about what is being said here. I see someone standing up for a teammate. I can respect that too. As long as you aren't saying "player X was bad ..... how did they get this ahead of our guy?" I don't see something as being so bad.

If you scroll up through the thread, you will see that I too see that there is a need for a reform process. I am not trying to apologize for what could have been a bad choice (not having seen all of the players, I can't tell), but this is always a problem. Three teams of ten in each class is an option, though it is not without its own problems.

Combining All-State teams between the classes would, IMO, be a disaster. The end of it would be that one class would every year scream to the four winds about how there were too many >>insert class here<< representatives. The fighting would be unending.

So, I want to put a call out to anyone out there ..... the folks in charge of this project are listening in, so if anyone has suggestions, very politely leave them here. One suggestion is: three teams of ten, across both classes. What is past is past, but if there are ideas to improve, let's here them.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

Tegan wrote:Let's all be one with each other for a moment.

BGSO you are being a good teammate looking out for a fellow player. As a former coach, I respect that.

BG MSL CHAMP I don't find anything particularly bad or upsetting about what is being said here. I see someone standing up for a teammate. I can respect that too. As long as you aren't saying "player X was bad ..... how did they get this ahead of our guy?" I don't see something as being so bad.

If you scroll up through the thread, you will see that I too see that there is a need for a reform process. I am not trying to apologize for what could have been a bad choice (not having seen all of the players, I can't tell), but this is always a problem. Three teams of ten in each class is an option, though it is not without its own problems.

Combining All-State teams between the classes would, IMO, be a disaster. The end of it would be that one class would every year scream to the four winds about how there were too many >>insert class here<< representatives. The fighting would be unending.

So, I want to put a call out to anyone out there ..... the folks in charge of this project are listening in, so if anyone has suggestions, very politely leave them here. One suggestion is: three teams of ten, across both classes. What is past is past, but if there are ideas to improve, let's here them.
edit: forgot I was on the boards and not the wiki site! Yeesh!

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by JackGlerum »

BG MSL Champs wrote:The best solution is to combine All State into three ten player teams. With this solution, no great Class AA players would be left out while good Class A players get in.
People are going to get snubbed either way, it's part of what all-star/all-state/all-american teams are all about. Combining AA with A in awards and/or postseason competition would be a disaster. Would it make sense to pit Benedictine against U of I in anything? The top Class AA teams are always going to be eons better than the top Class A teams. For example, PORTA, Class A champs, go to Champaign for NAQT State and get drilled by top AA teams New Trier and Auburn by 450 and 300 respectively. It isn't anything against PORTA, New Trier has, no joke, 10 times the amount of students (400 to 4000). You have to respect the smaller schools by separating them, because other than a few exceptions (Deets/Byron & Friedman/Latin for example), the top Class AA players/teams will reign.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

JohnGlerum wrote:The top Class AA teams are always going to be eons better than the top Class A teams.
This south sider does not endorse the rantings of this Goldcoaster who is obviously over tired being that this is like 9:30 pm and it is way past his bed time.

While I would agree that this is true this year (looking at the NAQT State finish would be adequate support for that), and I would go as far as to say that the Class AA top teams are likely at least a little better than the top Class A teams in most years, I would never state this as an absolute.

For example: In Brad Fischer's senior year, I would easily have thrown both Latin and 'Bago in the mix of the best teams in state, irrelevant of size. This is not universally true for Latin, but that year, both teams were really good. I can even remember a Latin team some years ago that you could make a strong argument for being better than any AA team.

There is a precedence in sports. The first year that the IHSA put the private school multiplier in effect, the girls volleyball team from Mater Dei (way down in Breese) made it to AA state. Everyone thought (yeah, well, they beat up some downstate AA schools, but when they have to beat McAuley, Downers Grove, and New Trier, they are up the creek. The laughter stopped when they (about 500 students) ran the table. They had shirts made up saying something to the effect "This year, things are 1.6 times better", referring to the IHSA multiplier.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Stephen Colbert »

BarringtonJP wrote: A = Barrington Station (#2 = Lincolnshire Daniel Wright (feeds Stevenson), #3 = Buffalo Grove Aptakisic (feeds Stevenson), #4 = Barrington Prairie, #5 = Vernon HIlls Hawthorn South (feeds Libertyville, Mundelein & Vernon Hills), #6 = Lake in the Hills Marlowe (feeds Huntley), #7 = Wadsworth Millburn (feeds Lakes, Grayslake North, & Warren), #8 = Cary JHS (feeds Cary-Grove))
Congrats!
BarringtonJP wrote: C = Lemont Old Quarry (I call shenanigans on this sectional... How does last year's state runner-up, River Forest Roosevelt, fail to earn a seed? They went 8-0 at the BIT, which was attended by 6 other teams in this sectional! Even if they were the only games they played, it shows SOMETHING)
I don't understand this either. Is it possible they didn't submit a record? I know that this has happened in the past and teams were still placed into regionals. That being said, I was always skeptical about seeding unfamiliar teams that had very few losses but only played a handful of matches. But, anyone remotely familiar with River Forest Roosevelt (and there are a substantial number of teams in this sectional that are) would be crazy not to seed them at all, or more deservedly, first.
BarringtonJP wrote: B = Roanoke-Benson
Is it possible this should be Bloomington Cornerstone?
BarringtonJP wrote: I think I'm going to ask for publication of seed numbers for future regional assignments at this year's AdCo meeting.
What really bothers me is the number of regionals/sectionals that remain host-less. Maybe I'm to idealistic, but when I coached, I would do everything in my power to host a regional & sectional. I love hosting, and compared to an all day affair, a little bitty regional or sectional is a walk in the park. For whatever reason, I can't fathom why there aren't more coaches jumping at the chance to host. Competitively speaking, who wouldn't want to play on their own turf, with their own buzzers, and without the long bus ride on a school night?
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOFK7u3hajg

There are some things in our universe which are easy to explain .... black holes, the biology of thought, and why people listen to Oprah Winfrey.


This ...... this I have no explanation for. To paraprhrase Morpheus: "Unfortunately, no one can be told what this film is. You have to see it for yourself."

OK, I'll tell you .... it is a recruiting video for Somonauk Scholastic Bowl. It simply must be seen.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Tegan wrote:
JohnGlerum wrote:The top Class AA teams are always going to be eons better than the top Class A teams.
This south sider does not endorse the rantings of this Goldcoaster who is obviously over tired being that this is like 9:30 pm and it is way past his bed time.

While I would agree that this is true this year (looking at the NAQT State finish would be adequate support for that), and I would go as far as to say that the Class AA top teams are likely at least a little better than the top Class A teams in most years, I would never state this as an absolute.

For example: In Brad Fischer's senior year, I would easily have thrown both Latin and 'Bago in the mix of the best teams in state, irrelevant of size. This is not universally true for Latin, but that year, both teams were really good. I can even remember a Latin team some years ago that you could make a strong argument for being better than any AA team.
While I appreciate the kind words, Class AA will always be eons better than Class A, my senior year included. When I was a senior, I went 0-infinity against Fremd, New Trier, Wheaton North, Loyola, Maine South, Bloomington, Carbondale, and St. Ignatius, and the only close games among those were a fluky first round NAQT match against Bloomington and a not-so-fluky close NAQT match against Maine South. The only time I was able to beat anyone in that list was Fremd and Bloomington in a Loyola Ultima match. The only high caliber win that year was when we played Auburn when they were missing Tyler Kerr, and that went down to the last tossup against Colleen/sophomore John/freshman Siva. I was on fire that day and the Auburn round (10 TU out of 20), and even then full strength Wheaton North beat us by 400 points. I just couldn't handle a team that could afford to have specialists - no one-man team can, on quality questions. Latin was balanced and so they might have had a better shot, but in team rankings, Winnebago didn't deserve anywhere in the top Class AA ranks of '06.

Also, there are only two Class A teams in this conversation - one was a one-senior team, and the other was a Latin team led by a crop of seniors that won three straight titles (also, they're Latin). That year's Class AA teams (in the order of the list above) included Alex Beata, Carlo/Nick as juniors, Greg Gauthier as a sophomore, McKenna/Kragh, Peterson/Svetlichnaya/Wear as juniors, Vikram and Kristina/Hunter as juniors, Justin Stoncius as a junior, and Conor/Luke. And it's not just that each one of those teams "peaked" that year - Bloomington, Maine South, and New Trier peaked the year after, that was Wheaton North's worst year of 4 with Greg (as a sophomore with arguably the least supporting cast), it's debatable on '05 Fremd vs. '06 Fremd, etc. Each one of those teams constantly reloaded for the years previous and since, so a "peak" generally doesn't mean anything. Also, except for Fremd and Carbondale, each of those teams had multiple strong players - and Fremd and Carbondale might have as well, but I didn't play either of them outside of Earlybird or Ultima to know.

Look at the Class A teams. Latin aside, it's basically a crap shoot as to which school gets a standout player or two each year. Stillman Valley got Kelly Tourdot and AJ Newhausen and haven't been alive on the circuit since. Byron had Matt Childers, then had to wait another 6 years until their '06 seniors came before they had another good team. Decatur Lutheran had Jon Ryherd and his class, but nothing before and nothing this year. Fairfield's never been good enough to really accomplish anything at State (probably because they play :chip:).

And every year, every single year, the scores in Class A are considerably lower than Class AA. This year at the Sectional level, in Class A, 36 out of 48 games didn't top 300 combined points (one-third of the total available), while in Class AA, it's only 7. In Class A Sectionals, a team topped 200 points in a game only 7 times - in Class AA, 7 teams LOST while putting up 200 points. Class A Regional "champions" fail to top 100 points at Sectionals.

Below the top-caliber level at State, you never see Class A teams consistently beating the "next tier" of Class AA teams. In this area, Boylan, Guilford, and Sterling hardly ever lose to Class A teams other than Byron or Winnebago. In the central and southern parts of the state, the Class AA schools after Bloomington, Carbondale, and (welcome to the conversation) O'Fallon and Springfield still consistently score better.

There are, in any given year, less than 5 strong, top-tier Class A teams statewide. There have been Class AA regionals with 5 top-tier teams - 2006 in the north suburbs, for example. What's more, of those top-tier Class A teams, none of them can ever hang with the big dogs of Class AA. The last time they have (2003, with Kelly Tourdot at Stillman and Jim Davis at Latin), the question quality was one-liners which - say it with me! - don't properly differentiate between top players or teams. And even that year, Stillman and Latin didn't put up points at State like Wheaton North, New Trier, or Auburn.

As a whole, Class A will never approach Class AA. Just looking at the top teams, there will always be 5 outstanding Class AA teams for every outstanding Class A team, and the top 3-5, even top 10 Class AA teams will always be consistently better than the top Class A team.
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

styxman wrote:While I appreciate the kind words, Class AA will always be eons better than Class A, my senior year included. When I was a senior, I went 0-infinity against Fremd, New Trier, Wheaton North, Loyola, Maine South, Bloomington, Carbondale, and St. Ignatius ...
I think you may have proved my point. First off, this is a one off example ..... this era up until this year was a "golden era" of sorts among the Class AA Chicago area schools. I doubt there were ever so many schools that were at peak performance all at once. Nonetheless, this is a short, finite list of teams that 'Bago couldn't beat, and I figure it would be the same for Latin (Actually, I think Latin beat St. Ignatius in their conference). I would throw 'Bago and Latin up in the top 10 that year, irrespective of Class. All I was arguing with JG about was that it is possible. For example, take you 'Bago team and throw them against this year's AA teams, and 'Bago is likely top five or six.
styxman wrote:Look at the Class A teams. Latin aside, it's basically a crap shoot as to which school gets a standout player or two each year. Stillman Valley got Kelly Tourdot and AJ Newhausen and haven't been alive on the circuit since. Byron had Matt Childers, then had to wait another 6 years until their '06 seniors came before they had another good team. Decatur Lutheran had Jon Ryherd and his class, but nothing before and nothing this year. Fairfield's never been good enough to really accomplish anything at State (probably because they play :chip:).
All good teams I neglected to mention. And you are right, if Fairfield is the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, and if they ever got away from Chipapalooza, they might get better. Sadly, as teams desert Chip, Fairfield is starting to finish higher and higher, making it less likely they will leave.
styxman wrote:And every year, every single year, the scores in Class A are considerably lower than Class AA. This year at the Sectional level ...
I would not use this year as an indicator this was a very rough year for everyone, and the questions had some issues (issues that can be and will be overcome .... but the lit especially hit some rough spots).
styxman wrote:The last time they have (2003, with Kelly Tourdot at Stillman and Jim Davis at Latin), the question quality was one-liners which - say it with me! - don't properly differentiate between top players or teams. And even that year, Stillman and Latin didn't put up points at State like Wheaton North, New Trier, or Auburn.
eehhh...... 2003 did not really use on-liners. Yeah, there were still some left as there were still some people writing them that hadn't been dumped away yet, but as I recall, the questions were still predominantly pyramidal. And while Stillman and Latin may not have matched 3-4 teams in AA, after that they could hold their own.
styxman wrote:As a whole, Class A will never approach Class AA.

Agreed. All I am arguing is that to throw a blanket over Class A and say "can't compete with AA" is wrong, because there have been and will be some Class A teams who will compete with all but maybe a handful of the best AA teams.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by JackGlerum »

Tegan wrote:This south sider does not endorse the rantings of this Goldcoaster who is obviously over tired being that this is like 9:30 pm and it is way past his bed time.
Boooo
Tegan wrote:All I am arguing is that to throw a blanket over Class A and say "can't compete with AA" is wrong, because there have been and will be some Class A teams who will compete with all but maybe a handful of the best AA teams.
I agree! Of course there are always going to be exceptions...
JohnGlerum wrote:other than a few exceptions (Deets/Byron & Friedman/Latin for example)

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by the return of AHAN »

Stephen Colbert wrote:
BarringtonJP wrote: C = Lemont Old Quarry (I call shenanigans on this sectional... How does last year's state runner-up, River Forest Roosevelt, fail to earn a seed? They went 8-0 at the BIT, which was attended by 6 other teams in this sectional! Even if they were the only games they played, it shows SOMETHING)
I don't understand this either. Is it possible they didn't submit a record? I know that this has happened in the past and teams were still placed into regionals. That being said, I was always skeptical about seeding unfamiliar teams that had very few losses but only played a handful of matches. But, anyone remotely familiar with River Forest Roosevelt (and there are a substantial number of teams in this sectional that are) would be crazy not to seed them at all, or more deservedly, first.
The IESA has a rule in place that says schools are DROPPED from State Series if they fail to submit a record. My next guess is that perhaps they underreported their record...Pretty big mistake to make and I can't fathom doing it on purpose, but still. I may yet e-mail the coach and ask WTF.
Stephen Colbert wrote:
BarringtonJP wrote: B = Roanoke-Benson
Is it possible this should be Bloomington Cornerstone?
Possible. They are the host of the first three-team regional listed in that sectional. I'm basing it on the fact that R-B is 20+ miles away from Bloomington and obviously one of these teams is ranked #1, while the other is #8. Why do I think it's RB? Because they made the 3rd place game at the Metcalf Tourney and seemed pretty decent to me. So, if they ARE #8, then Cornerstone must be a monster team this year in a stacked sectional.
Stephen Colbert wrote:
BarringtonJP wrote:
I think I'm going to ask for publication of seed numbers for future regional assignments at this year's AdCo meeting.
What really bothers me is the number of regionals/sectionals that remain host-less. Maybe I'm to idealistic, but when I coached, I would do everything in my power to host a regional & sectional. I love hosting, and compared to an all day affair, a little bitty regional or sectional is a walk in the park. For whatever reason, I can't fathom why there aren't more coaches jumping at the chance to host. Competitively speaking, who wouldn't want to play on their own turf, with their own buzzers, and without the long bus ride on a school night?
QFT!
With transportation costs only going up, hosting is much cheaper than traveling. Daniel Wright administration steadfastly refused to host until they FINALLY saw the light 2 years ago when the IESA sent them, as a #1 seed, all the way to BURR RIDGE to play their regional. Personally, I couldn't think of a better jab to give to a #1 team that refused to host, and hey, it worked. They've applied to host the last two years!
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Stained Diviner »

Sorry for a delayed response to Mr. Weiner. I spent the last week offline.
The more I hear about the IHSA, the less redeemable it seems. Seriously, there are not 114 players in the whole country good enough to get named officially outstanding players. Thus, the idea that there are that many just in Illinois is absurd...

When everyone is a winner, no one is a winner. All of these enrollment classes and five thousand regional tournaments and giant rain barrels full of "all-sectional" ribbons smack of Harrison Bergeron-ism and severely cheapen the accomplishments of the teams and players who really do put in the work to be good. I think Illinois has to deal with this philosophical problem, as well as with the knowledge that the IHSA new-writers project has thusfar failed, if they ever want to have "good quizbowl" in their state.
I don't understand what the problem is here. There are different levels of awards, and All-Sectional is fairly low level--if more coaches took it seriously, it would correspond to being in the top ten percent of students in your Sectional, and as it is it corresponds in most cases (depending on the Sectional) to your coach being willing to nominate you. Students serious about Scholastic Bowl see it as a first tier, with the second tier being the top 40% of All-Sectional students eligible for All-State, the third tier being All-State, and the fourth tier being First Team All-State. It has nothing to do with Harrison Bergeron since it is a part of a selective process. The same goes for Regionals and Sectionals.
It seems kind of crazy that the few things a football-coach association might actually be able to help with (like, a public school in Illinois being specifically disinvited from a quizbowl tournament on the basis of "we think they were good eight years ago, and if we allow a school we think is good to show up, they might win, and that might damage the self-esteem of people who lose") are left by the wayside, while they obsess over things like uniform requirements and restricting teams from playing tournaments at certain places and times. Also, I've been "privileged" to see many questions from Illinois lately, and I'm sorry to say that not a single tournament produced for the Illinois distribution has been better than "marginally acceptable" in quality, with most of them being more like "awful."
Keep in mind that Illinois Scholastic Bowl is in many ways decentralized. People who run tournaments can do whatever they want, and different conferences have all sorts of different policies. I won't get into the whole IMSA thing here unless you really want me to, but it's more complex than you make it out to be. The uniform requirements are stupid, but we do not obsess about them. They are only an issue at the State Tournaments (as opposed to invitationals or conferences), and teams just follow the rules and show up in matching tops. Additionally, the restrictions are really a non-issue, since they only apply to 5-on-5 matches. They have been used as an excuse by some teams, and other teams have either not paid close enough attention to the rules or have been afraid to push the envelope. The real reason Illinois teams don't leave Illinois is that they don't want to.

I don't know what tournaments you are referring to in terms of question quality. I know a little of your concerns with the IHSA State Series, and that's an issue you are in a better position to address than I am, though I appreciate what you have done and understand there is only so much you can do about it. If you think the current situation is a failure, then you should see what we had before. If you are talking about Scobol Solo questions, especially from the last year or two, I would be happy to read any critique you would email me or post. If you are talking about Aegis Questions, such as this year's Masonics or recent New Trier Varsity or IHSSBCA Kickoff Questions, I am sure they would be happy to read your critiques as well. I could forward them, or you could send them to Laird, Matchen, or Leapfrog who post here. If you're talking about other questions, there probably unfortunately isn't anyone involved who cares about what you have to say, and IHSA and IHSSBCA probably have nothing to do with them.
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Epic Fail Guy »

styxman wrote:(welcome to the conversation) O'Fallon.
We probably wont be around much longer. The only returning all sectional player is Kevin banker. Gene Marquez is graduating and Michael Gagliardi( me :oops: ) is moving to Georgia. Our only returning seniors will be graduating early before the peak of the quizbowl Season. O' Fallon will rarely have a consistent team, the school is totally based around Scott Air Force base, the kids who participate in quizboql are almost all the children of Officers. For those unfamiliar with the air force, Officers typically have to move every 3 years(sometimes 2, as in my case), which often will often interrupt players . Our most talented freshmen will be moving after his Sophomore year, and two of our other freshmen will also be moving. On the other hand, The Air Force Base can often bring in new talent as it has before.



Sorry for my lack of grammar and rambling incoherency.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by mlaird »

So, even after it's over, I'm still sort of ticked at the IHSA for having the State Finals on a Friday. Pulling our best and brightest out of school to compete has never been something we've done, and it's really just a bad idea, since it also prohibits parents from coming and creates all sorts of other problems. I've been sifting through some IHSA documents, and I found these interesting little tidbits:

Firstly, the IHSA states in their mission statement that:
"It is the responsibility of each member school...
to regulate its interscholastic program in both character and quantity according to the accepted objectives of secondary education so that interscholastics shall not unduly interfere with nor abridge the regular program of teachers and students in the performances of their regular day-to-day school duties;"

Therefore, no one should have sent their team to the state tournament this year, since they all missed school for it.

Also, "in 2003-2003 [sic], the IHSA completed a self-assessment of the athletic benefits, services and promotions of its programs asking the question, 'Is the IHSA treating all of its IHSA states series programs equitably?'" Of course, the report lumped all the activities together, and then went on to say that it's only "recommendation" regarding those activities (of which there are seven) was "that the activities [should] be assessed in the areas of benefits services and publicity." I don't even know what this means, but it for sure doesn't look at the fact that they don't give us much attention.

The IHSA Equity committee hasn't met since 2006, since apparently they decided that everything was keen and that they were no longer needed:
"Role of Committee: Has the committee fulfilled its purpose? Should the committee be a standing committee that meets when called upon? If the issues in the past have been resolved and there are no other IHSA concerns out there, has the committee thankfully completed its work?"

There is simply no reason that we should be shoved out of the way, simply so a bunch of hotels will be happy because some rooms will be filled by people paying for TWO nights instead of ONE. That is, and continues to be one of the most bogus rationales that I have ever heard, and it frustrates me to no end that we are not only a second class activity in the IHSA's eyes but also of less importance than their friends at the hotels.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

mlaird wrote:So, even after it's over, I'm still sort of ticked at the IHSA for having the State Finals on a Friday.
You and many other people .... at least the people who weren't thinking "A paid day off of work ,and a free Saturday, yay!"
mlaird wrote:Pulling our best and brightest out of school to compete has never been something we've done, and it's really just a bad idea, since it also prohibits parents from coming .... (sic)
This to me is the biggest crime ... not only could very few parents attend, but Scholastic Bowl is the only activity or sport that is expressly forbidden from being videotaped. That will need to change.

mlaird wrote:"It is the responsibility of each member school...
to regulate its interscholastic program in both character and quantity according to the accepted objectives of secondary education so that interscholastics shall not unduly interfere with nor abridge the regular program of teachers and students in the performances of their regular day-to-day school duties;"
Therefore, no one should have sent their team to the state tournament this year, since they all missed school for it.

This was sort of brought up. Remember, this is the IHSA ..... they have no oversight other than themselves. They can choose to break or bend their own rules without any possibility of a higher power stepping in with punishment. I have always likened the IHSA to something akin to the old office of the Commissioner of Baseball .... there is no review, and there is more-or-less absolute power.
mlaird wrote:'Is the IHSA treating all of its IHSA states series programs equitably?'" Of course, the report lumped all the activities together, and then went on to say that it's only "recommendation" regarding those activities (of which there are seven) was "that the activities [should] be assessed in the areas of benefits services and publicity."
You must realize that the actions of the IHSA reflect what a majority of the schools want .... and by that a majority of what the school communities want. Keep in mind: most schools are from .....well .... I won't go there yet again. In those areas, football and basketball are king, and all else is pretty much shuffled aside. In that sense, Scholastic Bowl is far from alone, but in many ways is also on the bottom of the totem pole.
mlaird wrote:The IHSA Equity committee hasn't met since 2006, since apparently they decided that everything was keen and that they were no longer needed:
Committees like this are rarely put together for actual change. More often, they are assembled to lend support that everything is going fine, and that they have been proactive in dealing with potential problems .
mlaird wrote:There is simply no reason that we should be shoved out of the way,
Of course there isn't ..... but that is not how the IHSA sees things. Basketball and football must go off without a hitch. They bring in revenue, and expose the most people to the IHSA ..... if anything gets in the way of the smooth running, then it must be eliminated. Football doesn't have that problem for the most part, because their championship doesn't conflict with any other sport or activity. Ours conflicts directly with basketball. When Anthony Holman ran SB, (and he was very good to us), he explained this very clearly .... basketball is a cash cow, and there is nothing that is going to change that.

The only thing that would change this, is if a majority of the communities in the state decided our activity was as or more important than some others. It is a very political organization, and we are the decided minority.

simply so a bunch of hotels will be happy because some rooms will be filled by people paying for TWO nights instead of ONE. That is, and continues to be one of the most bogus rationales that I have ever heard, and it frustrates me to no end that we are not only a second class activity in the IHSA's eyes but also of less importance than their friends at the hotels.[/quote]

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Matt Weiner »

Football coaches will never run good quizbowl. They don't know anything about the activity, and they don't want to. To the extent that they understand it's something involving academics and knowledge, they hate you for being "nerds," and want you to do things more like football (ultimately, this means playing 1 game a week 11 times). This will never change, and there is no long-term hope for permanent reform under a football-coach system. Secession from the state association and eliminating the football coaches' jurisdiction over non-athletic activities are more productive and realistic goals than reform.
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by the return of AHAN »

Will never happen. IHSA affiliation gives scholastic bowl legitimacy in the eyes of most administrators. Take away IHSA sanctioning and you will see a big drop-off in participation.
[personal twist] Our middle school has a Latin team (certamen) that participates in the Illinois Junior Classical League. They are perennial 'state' champs at this, and nearly all the players are my scobowlers. But when the league consists of 12 schools, how legitimate of a state championship is it?? I think it would be a MUCH bigger deal if we ever bring home an IESA State Championship trophy.
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by JackGlerum »

Matt Weiner wrote:Secession from the state association
Wouldn't this make the lack-of-publicity situation even worse?

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

Matt Weiner wrote:Football coaches will never run good quizbowl. They don't know anything about the activity, and they don't want to. To the extent that they understand it's something involving academics and knowledge, they hate you for being "nerds," and want you to do things more like football (ultimately, this means playing 1 game a week 11 times). This will never change, and there is no long-term hope for permanent reform under a football-coach system. Secession from the state association and eliminating the football coaches' jurisdiction over non-athletic activities are more productive and realistic goals than reform.

1. Matt, I cannot agree more with the first few things you say. Amazingly, the IHSA is not only aware of this, but they even went as far as finding coach or former coach to help run things like debate, with powers underneath that of an Executive Director. Nonetheless, we were never permitted to have one. IMO, this reiterates what you said.

2. If I had a dime for every time David Riley yelled "secession" (dangerous words coming from a Kentuckian!), I would be rich indeed. The fact is: if the IHSA ever gave up a hold on this, we would see the number of teams in Illinois drop to dangerously low numbers. There are roughly 500 teams now, with only about 30-40 being active in any sense. If the IHSA goes away, then I would estimate that we would be down to about 20 teams, scattered through the state (all of which would be active), but that number would dwindle as the number of opportunities for competition grew dry. A great many schools will budget for an IHSA activity, but won't if the IHSA isn't involved.

I wish it were different. A goal of secession would be more productive, but is in no way realistic.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Matt Weiner »

I just don't buy into the "lots of uninterested people playing bad quizbowl for the wrong reasons > a smaller, good circuit" theory.
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

Matt Weiner wrote:I just don't buy into the "lots of uninterested people playing bad quizbowl for the wrong reasons > a smaller, good circuit" theory.
In principle, I agree completely. In realpolitik, that is the way of things.

In Soviet Illinois, bad teams own you.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by OP_Huskies »

Tegan wrote:
Matt Weiner wrote:Football coaches will never run good quizbowl. They don't know anything about the activity, and they don't want to. To the extent that they understand it's something involving academics and knowledge, they hate you for being "nerds," and want you to do things more like football (ultimately, this means playing 1 game a week 11 times). This will never change, and there is no long-term hope for permanent reform under a football-coach system. Secession from the state association and eliminating the football coaches' jurisdiction over non-athletic activities are more productive and realistic goals than reform.
If the IHSA goes away, then I would estimate that we would be down to about 20 teams, scattered through the state (all of which would be active), but that number would dwindle as the number of opportunities for competition grew dry. A great many schools will budget for an IHSA activity, but won't if the IHSA isn't involved.
Let me start with a disclaimer: I'm not advocating for one side or the other in the "secession" debate.

That said, I'm not sure it's entirely accurate to say that no IHSA implies no funding, even at smaller schools. For example, the state math team contest is not run by IHSA but ICTM, a council of Illinois math teachers. Most likely, this system probably came to be because ICTM simply started doing math team contests before IHSA, and therefore ICTM became 'standard' for math teams before IHSA had to start worrying about it.

Also, is there a possibility of trying to work with IHSA for more autonomy within the organization. This question is mainly directed at Mr Egan, who has the most experience in IHSA politics. For instance, could we establish our own tournament with questions of our choosing etc., while still working under the IHSA name?

I'll put together more coherent thoughts when I have time.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by David Riley »

A separate tournament has been suggested before, possibly under IHSSBCA (the coaches' organization). To some extent, NAQT State and the New Trier Tournaments do this. But NAQT State (for example) rarely attracts more than ten teams, even with well-written pyramidal questions. Why? Because most coaches are not on board with it.

As far as more visibility within IHSA, I will defer to Mr. Egan on that. But change IS slow, and we would need a large percentage of coaches--and probably principals--to be on board with whatever change(s) we wanted to make.

And keep in mind, we suburan types have about as much in common with central and southern Illinois as we do with the Afghani and Iraqi rebels. :smile:
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Stained Diviner »

OP--You are correct about Math Team. Keep in mind, however, that there are roughly half as many Math Teams as Scholastic Bowl Teams. Also keep in mind that an organization such as IHSSBCA is a speck of dust next to ICTM, since ICTM has over ten times our membership and is a wing of a huge national organization (NCTM) that is known to and respected by most school administrators.

As far as autonomy is concerned, IHSA does give a fair amount of autonomy in tournaments other than their own. The dates limitation has a huge exception that IHSA is aware of, the matching tops rule is not used at most tournaments, most tournaments do not disqualify incomplete teams, most matches don't last 30/30, and individual tournaments and conferences can pretty much do whatever they want to (even though most of them choose to follow all IHSA rules other than the ones I just listed).

There have been inquiries in the past regarding the extent to which IHSSBCA could manage aspects of the IHSA Tournament. We have consistently been told that IHSA runs IHSA Tournaments. There is a chance for coaches to suggest changes. On April 28, there will be an annual meeting at IHSA Headquarters including me, Grierson and the Advisory Committee. It is not an open meeting, and Grierson and I don't get to vote on resolutions. However, we can put items on the agenda and speak up at any time. Many of the changes in the IHSA Tournament (though not the move to Friday) have come from IHSSBCA suggestions. Additionally, many IHSSBCA suggestions have been voted down by coaches on the Advisory Committee (including my annual recommendation to eliminate Drivers Ed). Many other suggestions we have made have been turned down by IHSA because they conflict with overall IHSA policies or cost money. The Advisory Committee is so named because rules it passes must be approved by a committee of school administrators before they become actual policies, which means that we occasionally pass things that don't get passed. The policies passed by the Advisory Committee are presented by McGraw to the Administrative Committee, so we have to pass resolutions AND convince him to present them in a positive light.

If you have suggestions for improving Scholastic Bowl, now is the time to make them known. Contact me and members of the Advisory Committee, especially the member in your Division. You can also contact McGraw if you want to. Keep in mind that if you are contacting somebody you don't know well, you need to be very respectful, or your lack of respect will become the primary issue rather than the content of your letter. Also, beware of the fact that many recommendations are voted down, more often than not by coaches rather than the IHSA (though the coaches are hand-picked by the IHSA (though the IHSA generally does not choose them based on specific opinions they hold)).
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

I'm responding to many posts here, so I will try and cover bases:

Whether or not an activity is run by the IHSA or not is not up to the coaches or players in the state. It is up to (at least) a majority of principals. Back in 1986, a majoruity of principals decided to have the IHSA take over running Scholastic Bowl. With it came affirmation as a major activity that many other activities don't have (like math team, science olympiad) etc). With it also came a whole bunch of demands. At the time, Scholastic bowl was bad, and these demands didn't change anything. As the push to improve has been made, these rules (geographic representation, matching tops, single elimination regionals, etc) have become a major pain in the fustookus. Unfortunately, as Harlow Shapley once sai, it is easier to get into things than it is to get out of them. As long as a majority of principals want it to be, scholastic bowl is saddled with IHSA oversight. Even if teams withdrew from the IHSA state series, they would theoretically be buond to follow directives, as long as their school was an IHSA member (the IHSA has rules that govern field hockey, even though the IHSA does not offer a state series in the sport).

Thus, secession has always been extremely unrealistic as an option. Even if 30 teams decided to withdraw, those 30 teams will have escaped nothing, as they would still be bound to follow the same rules as teams that did not. Bad? Absolutely! Reality? Yes (sadly).

Hence, reform is the best option. The good news, is that local tournament hosts are absolutely free to do whatever they want .... they can find the best questions, they can invite the world, they can make up any rules they want. They could even choose to play 4-on-4 which would not even count as Scholastic Bowl matches. As a matter of fact, an Illinois team could do 4-on-4 matches year round if they want. In that sense, we have a certain level of freedom, but it is not something that we want to advertise too much for fear that loopholes will get closed. We had a close call two years ago, but or the moment, we are safe on this matter.

Math teams are cheap to run .... no real equipment needed, and the rules are sit and solve math problems. There are no real issues with the questions tkaing too long or being too hard, etc. From year to year, things are pretty constant. If the IHSA stepped out from managing Schoolastic Bowl, and another state organization came in and ran things closer to other states, my guess is that many teams would drop out because they wuold no longer stand a cahnce of winning anything. In Mathletes, there are many prizesto be one at different levels for teams and individuals. Eventually you are bound to win something. In Scholastic Bowl, this would likely go away with a reductionist approach in awards. Further, in some schools, coaching stipends are tied to IHSA activities./ Teams could be vcery successful, and find their fundnig yanked if the U+IHSA went away. Bad? yes. True? Yes. In some schools, the math team caoaches receve zero compensation., while the IHSA Scholastic Bowl coach makes more. Fair? no. True? yes.


To get back to OP's last question, there is nothing stopping us from having an open invitation state tournament, with NAQT (as Coach Riley pointed out) being pretty much that. As a matter of fact, except for the lack of many top teams showing up,and the high number of pop culture questions, I would say that the NAQT tournament is more legit than the IHSA Tournament. As an association, the IHSSBCA has, for years, recognized IHSA and Masonic States as the two state champions. At any time, they could choose to alter that list to include the NAQT, or to recognize only NAQT. It might get some people's noses out of joint, but I don't think anyone will start a war over it. I think the only thing keeping NAQT State from being recognized is that there are only a few good teams there. This past year, I would say only 4-5 teams were legit, and about another 10 legit teams weren't there for a variety of reasons.

That being said, the IHSSBCA cannot force a tournament to do things a certain way. They can try to educate them, and they can ask nicely, but if the tournament host decides to have a tournament in such-and-such a way, that is their choice.

For the record, when I was a coach, I did stop patronizing tournaments which I felt were not being run in what I considered good and honest ways. I withdrew my team from the CSL, because I did not think that the practices being followed were in the best interest of players wanting to improve. There was a tournamnet in the greater Rockford area which I stopped attending because they were more interested in advancing one team from each grouping of "small", "medium:, and only one "large" schools, no matter how good they were.There was another tournament that played three morning matches, and even going 2-1 did not guarantee advancement on terrible questions. I also topped taking my team to the south suburbs after the tournament started using inexcusaby bad questions.

The number one reason given for tournament hosts not changing: if I do "X", teams will stop showing up. The only way you can force change from the now is to stop patronizing tournaments which do not run based on the good practices of quizbowl.

Am I a hypocrite for going to Richards all those years. I guess I am. I loved Mike Cleary .... great man, not the best questions, and brackets were fixed to avoid having too many good teams in the playoffs. Of course, Richards is no longer running.

In summary of rant: we do have the freedom to make changes outside of the IHSA State Series, including crowning a truer champion. The fact is: there is not enough general support to make these changes.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by TheTeen »

Just popping in and saying hi to all Illinois scholastic bowlers. I am, like Elizabeth, from the Litchfield team, and I hope to be joining in conversations here.:)
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Stained Diviner »

Tom's generally right. Let me say a little bit about Math Team, however.

The reason Math Team questions are generally good is that the right people are in charge of them. The NSML, which started 31 years ago and now has 55 teams from the Chicagoland Region, was started by John Benson of Evanston THS. If you've ever known him or seen anything he has worked on, you are not surprised that it has been well run. He hand-picked the question writers, and he knows the difference between good questions and bad questions. He also made sure that a lot of the money involved goes to the writers. As one writer in his stable, I write about 40 questions per year and get paid $650, and I am assigned an editor who gets paid $300 for working on the same 40 questions. When the ICTM State Contest got started, it got started by math teachers who were highly respected across Illinois--people who give popular talks at conferences and write popular textbooks. They pick great people to write questions. (Not me.) Great care goes into the questions. The questions for 2010 have already been written, and several proofreaders are currently at work on them. That's in addition to a final review of the 2008 questions and some reworkings of the 2009 questions that are ongoing. The writer is a former coach who won something like nine State Championships in addition to a heck of a lot of other great things. The coaches are all math teachers, usually teachers of high-level honors classes, so they know the difference between a good math question and a bad math question, and they are not afraid to give their opinions. Furthermore, written contests make bad questions more obvious. If all the questions are too easy, then you get a lot of tie scores, which is not what happens with Scholastic Bowl.

Scholastic Bowl is different. A lot of tournament hosts are as interested in logistics as question quality, often even more interested in the former than the latter. A lot of coaches are just young teachers who got roped into the job, and few teachers know the difference between a good question and a bad question outside of their area of expertise. A lot of people seem to think the point is to have exciting matches with lots of kids trying as hard as possible to buzz in at just the right moment, rather than to have a more academic focus.

In other words, common Math Team competitions aren't more academically rigorous than common Scholastic Bowl competitions in Illinois because anybody can run a math competition well--they are that way for other reasons. Mr. Egan is correct, however, that the format better lends itself to having lots of winners, since you can give awards to the top few people in each grade, the top few teams in each grade, have individual and team competitions on the same day, and so forth pretty easily, while in Scholastic Bowl the only meaningful awards are the ones for the top teams.

Anyways, the reason for this rant is that I would love to see more attention paid to question quality, and I wanted to point to an area where that attention is given. It's not because I disagree with Tom, who honestly is awesome.

Welcome, Elizabeth. You have joined a rambling thread, which gives a healthy amount of freedom to us posters.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Trevkeeper »

I've always noticed when it comes to talking about changing Schobowl in regards to the IHSA that the common thread is principals. It seems as if the coaches can attempt anything they want, but they likely won't get much done, whereas a few principals will convince the IHSA. Is this somewhat accurate? And if so, how can it be used to advance our causes?
Nick, IU and Aegis Questions

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Irreligion in Bangladesh
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

So, the geography of the Advisory Committee regions confuses me. Which member of the board represents my area?
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Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Stained Diviner »

Brad's question can be answered here (combined with the link in my last post).

Nick's point is a little more complicated. There are a handful of school administrators on the main IHSA Committee which approves or denies recommendations by the Advisory Committee, but I'm not convinced that lobbying them will do us any good, and in many years there are no issues forwarded to them that we deem important forward steps at great risk of being vetoed.

One or two Principals can propose rules which can then get voted on by Principals statewide, which is how we got our season limitation in the mid to late '90s. Several years ago, Egan got his Principal to submit an amendment which passed, allowing teams to practice outside the season and making it obvious that teams can compete in at least one tournament outside the season. If IHSSBCA wanted to, we could find a friendly Principal or two to submit other changes, but it's difficult to come up with proposals that we think would be helpful and likely to pass. A proposal to eliminate any limitations would certainly get shot down, since Principals love sports analogies and hate costs.

One more thing about why there are a lot of Math Teams without IHSA support: Department Chairs have a fair amount of power at schools. Math Teams are supported by Math Department Chairs, and Scholastic Bowl does not get that.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by D-SAR »

* I had a thread last spring about being named jr. high scholastic bowl coach at Athens Jr. High. Just wrapped up my first regular season (We're on Spring Break next week).

* I must admit, I'm now hooked! Now that I have a season under my belt I can't wait to prepare for future seasons. I now know what I need to recruit, what we need to practice in the off-season, etc.

* We have a tough task in the PORTA regional on April 23. PORTA will be the heavy favorite, but if WM or TD can get hot, we can compete with anyone.

* I definitely want to try and get in a tournament next year...May even look into hosting one.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by D-SAR »

* Some schools are much more prepared for a meet than others. I find those that are more prepared with scorekeepers, moderators, timers, etc. usually have better teams. Not always, but more often than not.

* Barrington: How many matches do you play on the season?

* Our area has a scheduling meeting in October. Due to being a new coach, I did not get the information. I had to scramble for matches and we ended up with 8 Tri and 2 Dual. Definitely more next year.

* I like the touch in Central Illinois of providing snacks to the visitors. Is this common everywhere?

* Got a lot of good stuff at the IESA workshop.

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the return of AHAN
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by the return of AHAN »

Results from the Antioch Upper Grade School Invitational (4/12/08):

1.) Cary JHS A
2.) Barrington Station B
3.) Lake in the Hills Marlowe
3.) Millburn Central A

Other quarterfinalists:
Streator St. Anthony, Barrington Station A, Buffalo Grove Twin Groves A, Buffalo Grove Twin Groves B

Consolation Champion: Antioch A
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
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the return of AHAN
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by the return of AHAN »

D-SAR wrote:* Some schools are much more prepared for a meet than others. I find those that are more prepared with scorekeepers, moderators, timers, etc. usually have better teams. Not always, but more often than not.
Or you visit a school with a fully staffed match that doesn't know what they're doing, or they enforce rules nowhere in any rule book. I hate that because then I have to break into lecture mode and build on my reputation as an unyielding tool.
D-DAR wrote: * Barrington: How many matches do you play on the season?
It varies. If you include State Series, the conference tournament, and 4 more Saturday tournaments, you're talking about 51, 44, 57, and 66 games over the past 4 years. Right now we've played 38 games, with at least 8 more games to go; more if we advance out of our pool at conference and/or advance to sectionals (not a given the way we're playing lately... see previous post).
D-SAR wrote: * Our area has a scheduling meeting in October. Due to being a new coach, I did not get the information. I had to scramble for matches and we ended up with 8 Tri and 2 Dual. Definitely more next year.
By all means, add tournaments where and whenever possible. It's just more bang for your buck.
D-SAR wrote:* I like the touch in Central Illinois of providing snacks to the visitors. Is this common everywhere?
Not in our middle school conference, but high school, yes.
D-SAR wrote:* Got a lot of good stuff at the IESA workshop.
Glad to hear it!
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
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Stephen Colbert
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Stephen Colbert »

Results from the Class AA IESA Regional at Streator Northlawn:

First place (advancing to the Morris Shabbona Sectional): Coal City
Second place: Ottawa Shepherd

On a semi-related note, a new Class A state champion will be named this year as the defending state champs, Streator St. Anthony, went winless in their regional.
Nathan Hollinsaid
Coach, St. Anthony Streator (2004-2007)
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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Tegan »

I got to moderate at the Barrington MS regional yesterday. Questions were awful ... maybe not as abyssmal as some tournaments, but they were bad.

That Cary team is pretty wicked awesome. They impressed me for such a young team in not giving up when they went down early, and managed to storm back. They are well rounded and have much potential as high school players .... if they actually go anywhere as high school players (which, sadly, has not been really big for their prospective HS team to do recently).

Barrington MS won ... pleayed very well, and were very strong throughout. The final match was really good. It was sad to see only one of two deserving teams advance, and sad to see them have to play on lousy questions.

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Re: Illinois '07-'08

Post by Stephen Colbert »

Complete IESA regional results are up at:

Class A: http://iesa.org/activities/scb/qualifie ... 08&Class=A
Class AA: http://iesa.org/activities/scb/qualifie ... 8&Class=AA

Most surprisingly, the Barrington Station Invitational champs, River Forest Roosevelt, did not advance out of their regional. After seeing them play, I thought they would've been a major contender at the state tournament.
Nathan Hollinsaid
Coach, St. Anthony Streator (2004-2007)
IHSSBCA Performance & Test-Certified Moderator

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