2008 QU NAC: B. T. Washington (OK) wins!

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2008 QU NAC: B. T. Washington (OK) wins!

Post by scquizbowl »

Today, just coming out a couple of hours ago, the schedules for the NAC (National Academic Championship) came out. Washington is where the Junior Nationals will be, and it is the largest of the three phases, with as many as six matches going on at once, and Junior Nationals matches will go on at the same time as the regular matches.

Here are the schedules for the three sites:

Dallas- http://www.qunlimited.com/dasched8.htm

Washington- http://www.qunlimited.com/wasched8.htm

Chicago- http://www.qunlimited.com/chsched8.htm

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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Byko »

There's a lot more teams than last year:

Dallas - 22
Washington - 61 (not including the 11 for Junior Nationals)
Chicago - 43

Total: 126

I've put in as many teams as I think are accurate into the ratings, so some comparisons can attempt to be made in the next few hours, I think. Of course, there are two problems:

1. Several of these are teams I don't have any data on
2. A couple teams are ones that I'm not sure where they're from. For example, where is the Lee at Chicago from? Or St. Mary's at Washington? And I'm not sure about Robert E. Lee at Dallas either.

Start prognosticating to your heart's content. I will say that Chicago looks to be the strongest of the three regionals and Dallas is definitely the weakest.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by lasercats »

Actually, there are 42 going to Chicago. A team dropped at the last minute, which is why I'm being sent to DC rather than Chicago as a moderator.

PS: Give me a shout if you see me in DC! I'll be the female moderator. :dance:
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Byko »

lasercats wrote:Actually, there are 42 going to Chicago. A team dropped at the last minute, which is why I'm being sent to DC rather than Chicago as a moderator.

PS: Give me a shout if you see me in DC! I'll be the female moderator. :dance:
Uh oh--that means they'll have to re-do a really big piece of the schedule. That's unfortunate for them.

Congrats on winning last year--hope you enjoy it.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Mr Foster »

The tourney is all James Island (Just Feeling It)
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Actually there is absolutely no way to know here. If the NAC had this kind of field and good questions, sure it's all James Island.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Maxwell Sniffingwell »

Charter's playing...
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by SHP Pirate »

I assume that Charter will actually be Charter A. (Last year, Bill seemed to bring his seniors and not his strongest team.) While James Island does seem to have the edge in DC, do not rule out New Rochelle. I had a chance to see them last weekend at the NY State Championship and they are very dangerous. (In addition, they a play a lot of four-quarter format.)

I agre with Byko that Chicago looks like the more difficult field. Charter would have to be the favorite, with Chaska, Center Grove, and Seton Hall all in contention. I see that St. Jospeh's is still playing two games at the same time. I am curious how that will be remedied.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by btressler »

Wilmington Charter is indeed the "A" team.

But we've never gone better than 4-2 in Chip's format.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Ben Dillon »

I see that St. Jospeh's is still playing two games at the same time. I am curious how that will be remedied.
I did bring that glitch to Chip's attention. If he isn't able to fix it, at least I have eight players going :)
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by lasercats »

Chicago is back up to 44. My bad.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Byko »

So Dallas starts tomorrow. For anyone who happens to be out there, here are some questions I'd be interested in getting answers to:

1. Where is the Robert E. Lee HS from that's out there? I'm guessing San Antonio, but, well, there are plenty of them out there (and not just in Texas).
2. I'm assuming that Episcopal is Episcopal Collegiate from Arkansas? Confirm/deny?

Yeah, that's it.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by etchdulac »

There is zero quiz bowl activity in San Antonio to my knowledge. That's where I live now.

My guess is that's not a Texas school. But we at TQBA certainly don't know everyone in our own ridiculously huge state. NAC is always a haven for the second-tier Houston and Dallas schools, while the best three NAQT format teams in the state are at HSNCT.

Just a quick glance at Chip's schedules, I count John Cooper, Alvin, Klein and Lamar from greater Houston; El Paso and Ysleta from out West; and Cistercian and about 7 Plano ISD teams from the Metroplex.

Cistercian had a top-10 finish at HSNCT a couple of years ago, but their pattern suggests that they go to HSNCT only when they have a top-notch team, while otherwise patronizing Chip.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by NMBlumberjax »

:chip: is god.......................................... jk
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by SHP Pirate »

What happened in Dallas?
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by lasercats »

SHP Pirate wrote:What happened in Dallas?
I haven't heard any results, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Horace Greeley or Copley.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by quizbowlben »

John Cooper won Dallas, going 5-1 on Day 1 and in the playoffs defeating Robert E. Lee (which is from Virginia), St. Mark's, and White Plains (by a score of 385-240).

Horace Greeley went 3-3. Copley A made the playoffs with a 4-2 record but lost to St. Mark's.

In spite of all the :chip:-bashing I've read here and elsewhere, it was a well-run tournament with good questions... none of the shenanigans of past years for which :chip: is regularly lambasted. Whether or not it was coincidence I guess I will find out in Chicago.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Captain Sinico »

quizbowlben wrote:...good questions...
Oh yeah?

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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

quizbowlben wrote:good questions
:monocle:

This would be shocking indeed. Any evidence to back this up?
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by closesesame »

Just a quick question to the esteemed members of the Wilmington Charter team:

Guys, why do you go to NAC? Why?
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by sam.peterson »

closesesame wrote:Just a quick question to the esteemed members of the Wilmington Charter team:

Guys, why do you go to NAC? Why?
I think they get their way paid as a result of winning some tournament in Delaware.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by The Atom Strikes! »

closesesame wrote:Just a quick question to the esteemed members of the Wilmington Charter team:

Guys, why do you go to NAC? Why?
We get a free trip to some city from Comcast. (as a result of a Chiptastic local tournament)
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Matt Weiner »

quizbowlben wrote:, it was a well-run tournament with good questions
No it wasn't.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by dtaylor4 »

closesesame wrote:Just a quick question to the esteemed members of the Wilmington Charter team:

Guys, why do you go to NAC? Why?
I believe it has been established before that the trip is paid due to winning a local tournament.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by NMBlumberjax »

Like Taylor said, and adding another trophy to your cabinet would not hurt either. :chip:'s competitions are terrible but overall it just can be another way to learn intresting things or just waste time
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Sir Thopas »

NMBlumberjax wrote:Like Taylor said, and adding another trophy to your cabinet would not hurt either. :chip:'s competitions are terrible but overall it just can be another way to learn intresting things or just waste time
I've always wanted to know what a blender sounded like.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by NMBlumberjax »

:shock: i never knew a blender made sounds :lol:
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Sir Thopas »

NMBlumberjax wrote::shock: i never knew a blender made sounds :lol:
You would not win at NAC, then.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by quizbowlben »

Matt Weiner wrote:
quizbowlben wrote:, it was a well-run tournament with good questions
No it wasn't.
Well, in the end, this is a matter of opinion, but my teammates and coach were all in agreement that, aside from the technical difficulties which caused a few matches to run late, the tournament was more organized and efficiently run than any of the NAQT tournaments we attended this year, in addition to having better questions overall than the NAQT tournaments - heavy on literature, history, and the arts but light on sports and current events. They were unquestionably better than the ones being discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5643. My team has had its fair share of disagreements with :chip: over the years too, but give credit where credit is due.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by The Atom Strikes! »

quizbowlben wrote:
Matt Weiner wrote:
quizbowlben wrote:, it was a well-run tournament with good questions
No it wasn't.
Well, in the end, this is a matter of opinion, but my teammates and coach were all in agreement that, aside from the technical difficulties which caused a few matches to run late, the tournament was more organized and efficiently run than any of the NAQT tournaments we attended this year, in addition to having better questions overall than the NAQT tournaments - heavy on literature, history, and the arts but light on sports and current events. They were unquestionably better than the ones being discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5643. My team has had its fair share of disagreements with :chip: over the years too, but give credit where credit is due.
Even if the questions contain less pop culture, they are not "good" unless they are pyramidal, with clues that differentiate between the ability of teams. If you can prove to us that Chip's questions do that this year, then we'd agree with you, but empty assertions do not an argument make.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Well, in the end, this is a matter of opinion, but my teammates and coach were all in agreement that, aside from the technical difficulties which caused a few matches to run late, the tournament was more organized and efficiently run than any of the NAQT tournaments we attended this year
See, here is a big mistake you just made. The only high school tournament that NAQT runs as the official NAQT organization every year is the HSNCT. The tournaments you played on NAQT questions were undoubtedly run by individual programs or local quizbowl organizations that do not represent any part of NAQT by themselves. Making assumptions about how organized a tournament run by NAQT based on your experiences at tournaments NOT run by NAQT is inherently misguided and unfair.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Captain Sinico »

quizbowlben wrote:...They were unquestionably better than the ones being discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5643.
Oh yeah? Did you see those questions at some point?

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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Matt Weiner »

This would be a good time to reiterate that, while math calculation tossups are inexcusable, trash is done to excess, and a few other things here or there were written in flagrantly suboptimal ways, the NAQT HSNCT set nonetheless contained something like 1300 questions, about 1150 of which ranged in quality from acceptable to excellent, and the overall format of NAQT games and the NAQT tournament make it about a thousand times more legitimate than Chip at his "best" has ever been. The idea of even considering a comparison between the two is patently absurd. That's before you even add PACE into the equation.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by NoahMinkCHS »

I'd be shocked if a tournament that used only two rooms at a time didn't run smoothly...
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by quizbowlben »

Deesy Does It wrote:
Well, in the end, this is a matter of opinion, but my teammates and coach were all in agreement that, aside from the technical difficulties which caused a few matches to run late, the tournament was more organized and efficiently run than any of the NAQT tournaments we attended this year
See, here is a big mistake you just made. The only high school tournament that NAQT runs as the official NAQT organization every year is the HSNCT. The tournaments you played on NAQT questions were undoubtedly run by individual programs or local quizbowl organizations that do not represent any part of NAQT by themselves. Making assumptions about how organized a tournament run by NAQT based on your experiences at tournaments NOT run by NAQT is inherently misguided and unfair.
Well, you misread what I originally said, which was not that it was better run than NAQT tournaments in general, but that it was well-run. My point in saying that it was better run than the NAQT tournaments in which my team participated this year was backing up my original assertion that it was well-run with (admittedly anecdotal) evidence, not to say anything about how well-run NAQT tournaments are or are not.
ImmaculateDeception wrote:Oh yeah? Did you see those questions at some point?
Not the entire tournament... I only read the ones I was referring to - the ones discussed in the thread. I made no statement regarding the rest of the questions.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Matt Weiner »

Hey, feel free to ignore a lot of semantic distraction over what constitutes an NAQT tournament, as well as the intriguing philosophical debate over whether questions you did not hear actually exist, and just tell us whether the NAC had pyramidal tossups on important academic topics, some way to also test depth of knowledge on said topics, a fair playoff format, and a lack of distribution-skewing format quirks, or did not have those things.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Byko »

quizbowlben wrote:the tournament was more organized and efficiently run than any of the NAQT tournaments we attended this year, in addition to having better questions overall than the NAQT tournaments - heavy on literature, history, and the arts but light on sports and current events.
I'm interested in hearing more specifics from you with regards to the questions. As a team who has competed at both local NAQT events in Texas (and done well, frankly--losses to LASA and St. John's are nothing to be ashamed of this year), you have perspective that I'm interested in hearing.

Most people on this board do believe that NAQT has too much pop culture and sports in its questions--that's something you won't find us disagreeing with you on. And I'm not asking for you to give any specific information regarding the questions in Dallas--after observing some rounds and talking to teams last year, I'm pretty sure they use those same questions in Washington and Chicago, so I don't want there to be any sort of violation there. But I am interested in your viewpoints as to why you like the NAC questions better. Is it because of distribution? Is it because they're shorter? Is there something else I'm missing? At least that gives information. I can't necessarily say I will agree with you, but I am interested in your opinion. Remember: while you can say you enjoyed something, that doesn't necessarily mean it was actually good: plenty of movies in Hollywood over the years seem to prove that right all the time.

One follow-up: I'm not surprised at all by your comments about NAC being well-run. I'm curious about your comment that NAQT-format tournament your team went to in Texas this year not being well-run. What kinds of problems did there seem to be? I certainly hope that "the quiz bowl circuit" in Texas is not starting to collapse into disorganization.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Buzz Buzzard »

SwissBoy wrote:
closesesame wrote:Just a quick question to the esteemed members of the Wilmington Charter team:

Guys, why do you go to NAC? Why?
We get a free trip to some city from Comcast. (as a result of a Chiptastic local tournament)
So what are Wilmington Charter's chances at becoming annointed the 5th Best Team Ever per :chip: ?

They need to bone up on household (and other) appliance sounds to be a true lock, but even still I think they've got a shot. Even if :chip: personally moderates and chooses the Categories for the game against Mannheim Township.......
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Captain Sinico »

quizbowlben wrote:
ImmaculateDeception wrote:Oh yeah? Did you see those questions at some point?
Not the entire tournament... I only read the ones I was referring to - the ones discussed in the thread. I made no statement regarding the rest of the questions.
I mean the NAQT questions. Did you see those?

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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Byko »

Buzz Buzzard wrote:They need to bone up on household (and other) appliance sounds to be a true lock
Well, last year, I took notes of dozens of rounds (I did it for the good of the community--Mike Z. can chime in with his response from last year to that if he wishes), and there wasn't a single question about sounds from appliances. Music, yes: often including various tunes of the 50s and 60s.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by AKKOLADE »

I forget - did you ever post those?
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Byko »

leftsaidfred wrote:I forget - did you ever post those?
Just a few particularly memorable moments, such as my vote for worst question of 2008:

"According to Wikipedia, what was the purpose of the Spanish Armada?"

I still have my pages of notes, though. If you want, I can have them on hand at PACE this weekend.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by AKKOLADE »

I wouldn't mind seeing those, but if you have to go out of your way to bring them don't worry about it.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by First Chairman »

I presume if we have an expeditionary group of observers to look over Friday's rounds at nearby Marymount, we can get more notes.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by lasercats »

ILoveReeses wrote:I presume if we have an expeditionary group of observers to look over Friday's rounds at nearby Marymount, we can get more notes.
I'll be reading a majority of them...
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Stained Diviner »

Byko last year wrote: 1. 60 Seconds Round: Name these Shakespeare plays from their initials.
2. A tossup question about ringtones
3. About 1 question every other round (on average) pertaining to Harry Potter
4. About 1 question every 4-5 rounds (on average) pertaining to The Hobbit or Lord of the Rings
5. Entire 60 Seconds rounds on Children's Literature (multiple times), Winnie the Pooh, Harry Potter, Folk Music, and Jewish Comedians
6. This question: "Why are landfills subject to explosion?"

And finally:

7. "According to Wikipedia, what was the purpose of the Spanish Armada?"
It happens sometimes. Landfills just explode.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by SHP Pirate »

I am sure that both Bill (Charter) and I will have plenty to say upon our return from Chicago NAC in two weeks. Like Charter, SHP "won" funds designated for the NAC tournament. I will agree with Byko ... there were not as many "small appliance accoustics" questions as in years past. However, when my team lost to Harrison in the DC semifinals last year, we almost choked when Harrison earned a perfect score on a bonus round of "Ferrets"! (No disrespect to Harrison ... they were a great team!)
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Byko »

SHP Pirate wrote:However, when my team lost to Harrison in the DC semifinals last year, we almost choked when Harrison earned a perfect score on a bonus round of "Ferrets"! (No disrespect to Harrison ... they were a great team!)
Ferrets? Wow--I missed out on the good stuff by not being there for the playoffs Monday!

Seriously, I would agree--Harrison was very good at that game.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Buzz Buzzard »

SHP Pirate wrote:I am sure that both Bill (Charter) and I will have plenty to say upon our return from Chicago NAC in two weeks. Like Charter, SHP "won" funds designated for the NAC tournament. I will agree with Byko ... there were not as many "small appliance accoustics" questions as in years past. However, when my team lost to Harrison in the DC semifinals last year, we almost choked when Harrison earned a perfect score on a bonus round of "Ferrets"! (No disrespect to Harrison ... they were a great team!)

Well, it could be said they truly (WAIT FOR IT) ... ferreted out the answers on that bonus category.
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Re: NAC Schedules

Post by Ed McMahon »

Buzz Buzzard wrote:Well, it could be said they truly (WAIT FOR IT) ... ferreted out the answers on that bonus category.
HIYO!
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