CO History Doubles Discussion
- Skepticism and Animal Feed
- Auron
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CO History Doubles Discussion
If anybody still remembers the first event of CO weekend (and I'm not sure even I do), feel free to leave your feedback in this thread.
A few issues I'll address up-front:
(1) Evan Nagler proofread all the packets, which was very awesome of him. Unfortunately, some non-proofread questions snuck into the final set. What happened was that I had two folders of packets on my desktop, one proofread and one not. They had similar names. I must have alternated between the folders while distributing the TU's into packets. This would also explain the repeat in the Finals packet, which I apologize for.
(2) In line with last year's discussion, I made an effort to make the tournament more accessible to those who practice actual academic history; this was done in part by writing more TU's on crops, resources, and social phenomena, but also by an increased use of clues from primary sources in lead-ins. I figure since real historians are all about primary sources, they would be at an advantage on those early clues, but those clues would still be uniquely identifying and concrete. Andrew Wehrman was really helpful on this.
(3) Some people on IRC were curious about the distribution. This is what it was:
1/1 Britain
2/2 Western Europe (Iberia, France, Italy, Germanic world)
1/1 Eastern Europe (West Slavs, South Slavs, Balts, Vlachs, Magyars, Grecians)
1/1 Russia
1/1 Classical World
1/1 Colonial America
1/1 19th Century America
1/1 20th Century America
1/1 Latin America
1/1 China
1/1 Japan
1/1 Subcontinent
1/1 Other Asia (Korea, Indonesia, Turks, Persians, Israel)
1/1 Africa and Araby
1/1 Grab-Bag
(4) Unfortunately, I won't have time to write this event again next year. I hope somebody else can take over and keep it going, because I look forward to playing this event next year.
A few issues I'll address up-front:
(1) Evan Nagler proofread all the packets, which was very awesome of him. Unfortunately, some non-proofread questions snuck into the final set. What happened was that I had two folders of packets on my desktop, one proofread and one not. They had similar names. I must have alternated between the folders while distributing the TU's into packets. This would also explain the repeat in the Finals packet, which I apologize for.
(2) In line with last year's discussion, I made an effort to make the tournament more accessible to those who practice actual academic history; this was done in part by writing more TU's on crops, resources, and social phenomena, but also by an increased use of clues from primary sources in lead-ins. I figure since real historians are all about primary sources, they would be at an advantage on those early clues, but those clues would still be uniquely identifying and concrete. Andrew Wehrman was really helpful on this.
(3) Some people on IRC were curious about the distribution. This is what it was:
1/1 Britain
2/2 Western Europe (Iberia, France, Italy, Germanic world)
1/1 Eastern Europe (West Slavs, South Slavs, Balts, Vlachs, Magyars, Grecians)
1/1 Russia
1/1 Classical World
1/1 Colonial America
1/1 19th Century America
1/1 20th Century America
1/1 Latin America
1/1 China
1/1 Japan
1/1 Subcontinent
1/1 Other Asia (Korea, Indonesia, Turks, Persians, Israel)
1/1 Africa and Araby
1/1 Grab-Bag
(4) Unfortunately, I won't have time to write this event again next year. I hope somebody else can take over and keep it going, because I look forward to playing this event next year.
Bruce
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
This tournament was very entertaining to me as someone who doesn't particularly enjoy history questions, and a lot of that was because of the creative tossup answers like "the United States and Japan," "inoculation for smallpox," "Pakistan's nuclear program," and "letters of Abigail Adams."
Distributionally, I thought that the set covered basically the entire spectrum of askable Japan stuff, which was a little excessive.
Distributionally, I thought that the set covered basically the entire spectrum of askable Japan stuff, which was a little excessive.
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum
Minnesota alum
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- Rikku
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
I enjoyed this tournament. It was well written, and I was pleased with the level of challenge the tournament provided.
The main thing that I didn't like about the tournament were the tossups where it was necessary to accept "obvious equivalents." I feel that these tossups tend to be confusing and too subjective, and moderators often have to struggle with whether to accept, prompt, or count as incorrect. I realize that last year's tournament was criticized for not enough social history questions, so I suppose this alleviated it. I don't advocate banning all tossups like this, and my dislike of these tossups are partially because they don't cater to my strengths as much as I would like.
As for the distribution I felt Japan was overrepresented, and the U.S. was underrepresented.
In no way did this have a major effect on my enjoyment of the tournament, as it was very well written, and any tournament that is exclusively history is awesome.
The main thing that I didn't like about the tournament were the tossups where it was necessary to accept "obvious equivalents." I feel that these tossups tend to be confusing and too subjective, and moderators often have to struggle with whether to accept, prompt, or count as incorrect. I realize that last year's tournament was criticized for not enough social history questions, so I suppose this alleviated it. I don't advocate banning all tossups like this, and my dislike of these tossups are partially because they don't cater to my strengths as much as I would like.
As for the distribution I felt Japan was overrepresented, and the U.S. was underrepresented.
In no way did this have a major effect on my enjoyment of the tournament, as it was very well written, and any tournament that is exclusively history is awesome.
Brendan Byrne
Drake University, 2006-2008
University of Minnesota, 2008-2010
Drake University, 2006-2008
University of Minnesota, 2008-2010
Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
I got to score keep for this, and that was a lot of fun to see all these good teams play this set. The set seemed really awesome. I really liked some of the way out there tossup and bonus selections, and the "You are BLANK, a BLANK in TIME PERIOD POLITY FTPE" bonuses were a cool way to do a bonus, that you wouldn't see in other tournaments.
Christian Carter
Minneapolis South High School '09 | Emerson College '13
PACE Member (retired)
Minneapolis South High School '09 | Emerson College '13
PACE Member (retired)
- fleurdelivre
- Tidus
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
I also enjoyed this bonus series (seppuku daggers = awesome).cdcarter wrote:I got to score keep for this, and that was a lot of fun to see all these good teams play this set. The set seemed really awesome. I really liked some of the way out there tossup and bonus selections, and the "You are BLANK, a BLANK in TIME PERIOD POLITY FTPE" bonuses were a cool way to do a bonus, that you wouldn't see in other tournaments.
Katy
Vanderbilt '06 / Harvard '11 / freelance moderator
Vanderbilt '06 / Harvard '11 / freelance moderator
- Sir Thopas
- Auron
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
The best part was when reader Quentin spent the first two parts thinking Publius was an actual Roman senator, and was thus very confused with the present tense and other stuff.fleurdelivre wrote:I also enjoyed this bonus series (seppuku daggers = awesome).cdcarter wrote:I got to score keep for this, and that was a lot of fun to see all these good teams play this set. The set seemed really awesome. I really liked some of the way out there tossup and bonus selections, and the "You are BLANK, a BLANK in TIME PERIOD POLITY FTPE" bonuses were a cool way to do a bonus, that you wouldn't see in other tournaments.
Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Damn. I'm pretty excited to see this set now.
Auroni Gupta (she/her)
- Matt Weiner
- Sin
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Some of the questions on non-proper nouns such as "people who passed civil service exams" left people who more or less knew what was going on in the clues at a loss to deduce what exactly the writer was going for. Most of them did not have this problem, though, and the questions on stuff like indigo and Israeli invasions of Lebanon were interesting new directions. There was some inconsistency in bonus difficulty, especially in terms of whether the easy part of a bonus was supposed to be really easy or not from one question to the next, but I thought the tossups were very good on the whole.
Matt Weiner
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
- No Rules Westbrook
- Auron
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Yeah, this tournament was a vast improvement over last year's set and, on the whole, quite enjoyable. People have mentioned some questions that might have been better reconsidered (like "historians," which was strange, and "people who passed examinations" which led me to confusedly neg with "scholars"). But, some of those creative ideas turned out really well - writing on "indigo" is a particularly good idea, given its importance, and the fact that it wasn't transparent or confusing. I was pretty out of it on Friday night for some reason or another, but even so, I really enjoyed a number of questions - the authors were not afraid to wander into topics that don't often get asked about in tossup form (and bonuses too), and that's awesome for events like this. This ranks as my favorite all-history event, of those that I've played.
Ryan Westbrook, no affiliation whatsoever.
I am pure energy...and as ancient as the cosmos. Feeble creatures, GO!
Left here since birth...forgotten in the river of time...I've had an eternity to...ponder the meaning of things...and now I have an answer!
I am pure energy...and as ancient as the cosmos. Feeble creatures, GO!
Left here since birth...forgotten in the river of time...I've had an eternity to...ponder the meaning of things...and now I have an answer!
- Skepticism and Animal Feed
- Auron
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Yeah, what I should have done with the TU on "people who passed the Chinese imperial examination" was just change it into a TU on "mandarins" or "chinese civil servants". I think that would have been far less confusing and would have allowed for more clues (such as on chinese civil servants before and after the examinations period).
According to the original author of that TU, he first intended it to be a TU on "chinese civil service exams", but found that he could not write a TU on that subject that wasn't transparent.
How do people feel about the relatively recent history that came up in this tournament, e.g., tossups on things like Bill Clinton and 9/11? Or the TU on homo habilis? Should these things have a place in mACF history outside of my CO side events?
According to the original author of that TU, he first intended it to be a TU on "chinese civil service exams", but found that he could not write a TU on that subject that wasn't transparent.
How do people feel about the relatively recent history that came up in this tournament, e.g., tossups on things like Bill Clinton and 9/11? Or the TU on homo habilis? Should these things have a place in mACF history outside of my CO side events?
Bruce
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
- Maxwell Sniffingwell
- Auron
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Homo habilis stood out as not being history. But 9/11 and Clinton worked fine, though they were a bit easy due to its recent nature.
Greg Peterson
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
- pray for elves
- Auron
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
In the room where I was reading both 9/11 and Bill Clinton went until just before FTP.cornfused wrote:Homo habilis stood out as not being history. But 9/11 and Clinton worked fine, though they were a bit easy due to its recent nature.
Evan
Georgetown Law Alum, Brandeis Alum, Oak Ridge High Alum
Ex-PACE, Ex-ACF
Georgetown Law Alum, Brandeis Alum, Oak Ridge High Alum
Ex-PACE, Ex-ACF
Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Same. (Except of course that I was playing, not reading)DeisEvan wrote:In the room where I was reading both 9/11 and Bill Clinton went until just before FTP.
George Stevens
Dorman High School 2008
Clemson University 2012
Dorman High School 2008
Clemson University 2012
- Skepticism and Animal Feed
- Auron
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Also, did the West Coast mirror of this happen?
Bruce
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
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- Lulu
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Re: CO History Doubles Discussion
Um, sort of. It was planned for Sunday evening, but there were only about 6 or 8 of us around at that point. Also, apparently we technically were not supposed to be in the rooms past 5 pm (although no janitors ever came to kick us out). Oh yeah, I believe all the buzzer systems were either gone or broken by that point as well. So, we decided to just play some informal matches, 3 teams playing simultaneously in a single room. We ended up playing either 3 or 4 rounds. A team of me and Bill Rowan went either 2-1 or 3-1 to "win" the "tournament."DJ Shadow wrote:Also, did the West Coast mirror of this happen?
Brian
Stanford University
Stanford University