ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

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ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Dennis » Wed May 21, 2008 1:53 pm

Brown Quiz Bowl is pleased to announce that Early Fall Tournament 3: Trapping Bees in a Dyson Sphere will be held on Saturday, October 4th, 2008 (pending approval from administration). It will be a standard mACF academic tournament, and it will be on the same level as last year's tournament (around ACF Fall). Our goal is to attract newer players to quiz bowl by holding an early non-packet submission tournament, and it will be written by me (Dennis Jang), Eric Mukherjee, Aaron Rosenberg, Jerry Vinokurov, and the rest of our quiz bowl team.

Whenever you decide to register, please contact me at dennis _ jang AT brown DOT edu with the number of teams, buzzers, and staffers.

Fee schedule:
Base fee: $100
Buzzer discount: -$5 each
Staff discount: -$10 each
Travel discount: -$10 for every 200 miles traveled

As usual, we are looking for teams interested in mirroring our tournament. Illinois will be holding the Midwest mirror (and I assume they will have a post sometime in the future), but if anyone else would like to mirror this, please contact me as soon as possible.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:17 am

Bump. Are people coming to this, or are my tossups on Private Obligations, Hyrrokin, and the Stork Enamine Synthesis going to waste?

FIELD:
Brown (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Penn (2 teams, 1 buzzer)
Princeton (2 teams, 1 buzzers)
Amherst (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Rutgers-NB (1 team, 1 buzzer)
RPI (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Super Williams Fighter II Turbo Revival (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Hampshire (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Brandeis (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Harvard (5 teams, 1 buzzers)
Hunter (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Dartmouth (3 teams, 1 buzzers)
Yale (x teams, 0 buzzers)
Cornell (2-x teams, 2 buzzers)
MIT (2 teams, 3 buzzers?)

Total (24 teams, 11 buzzers)

Both buzzers and staffers remain welcome.
Last edited by Sima Guang Hater on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:25 am, edited 20 times in total.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:32 am

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:tossups on [...] Hyrrokin
I will now be reversing the flow of time to play this tournament twice.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:07 am

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:Bump. Are people coming to this, or are my tossups on Private Obligations, Hyrrokin, and the Stork Enamine Synthesis going to waste?
We do plan on coming. We can't say much in the way of specifics before we know how many of our frosh are sticking with it, which we'll be surer of after next Friday. It'd be unreasonable to expect fewer than three Harvard teams, though.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sir Thopas » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:12 am

Hunter will be there with 1 (Hunter HS, that is).
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Auroni » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:46 am

metsfan001 wrote:Hunter will be there with 1 (Hunter HS, that is).
you sure you don't want to form two Hunter/Hunter hybrid teams?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:04 am

RPI might bring a team or two, but it's going to depend on our money situation/number of drivers we can get.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Dartmouth College Bowl » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:41 pm

We will probably bring two or three teams to EFT. We'll let you know closer to the date how many exactly.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Lapego1 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:08 pm

Penn is looking to come to this, pending the availability of our driver that weekend. I should be able to let you know soon.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by olsb25 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:02 pm

Princeton will probably bring one or two teams.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:10 pm

Field updated above. Also, if teams are bringing staffers, please let us know; we would like to have a large field, and need your help in doing so (and will offer your team discounts).
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by yoda4554 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:19 pm

Hey, regarding my placement on this: I emailed Dennis as to whether the Gentlemen's Agreement was going to be in force (i.e., whether my aged self should be playing or staffing this), planning on investigating my options as to whom I might play with (assuming I work out a pathway north) after receiving an answer. I haven't heard back, and I don't even know if Doug is planning on going to this, after all. So--should I take this as a "yeah, feel free to play"? If so, is having Doug on there indicative of his own expressed interest, or just my indirect and idle speculation?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by dyetman89 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:56 pm

My presence is indicative of my own interest, but grouping us together appears to be a whim of the Brown organization. We should talk more, once someone from Brown gets back to you.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:12 am

dyetman89 wrote:My presence is indicative of my own interest, but grouping us together appears to be a whim of the Brown organization. We should talk more, once someone from Brown gets back to you.
This is just me speculating. I had heard that the two of you were at the same school or something, and Dave's email suggested that he might play with you.

Also Dave, Dennis should be in contact with you shortly, but we feel that in a field with full lineups of MIT, Dartmouth, Yale, and Harvard, that you wouldn't necessarily stick out. The gentleman's agreement is kind of shaky for this tournament, as we're not really turning people away nor are people really holding themselves back from playing.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by DakarKra » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:40 am

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote: Rutgers-NB (2)
This should really just say one.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:56 pm

Hey can someone from Brown email me at cohena5@rpi.edu or aarcoh@gmail.com to work out pricing for RPI. I've been trying to email Dennis but he doesn't seem to be replying.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Wall of Ham » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:43 pm

Mark Cornell down for 1-2 Teams, most likely 2 if we can rent a car.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Lapego1 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:24 am

Is it possible to bring more teams to this or would staffing issues prevent that?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:26 am

Lapego1 wrote:Is it possible to bring more teams to this or would staffing issues prevent that?
I'll talk to dennis about it, but my gut reaction is for you to bring as many as you want and let us worry about the other stuff.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:42 pm

Lapego1 wrote:Is it possible to bring more teams to this or would staffing issues prevent that?
Just to clarify: while we welcome everyone, it would be problematic if you said you were bringing two teams and showed up with three, or vice versa. This is a general point to everyone, I guess. Please don't show up with a different number of teams than you claim to be bringing because this will probably blow up our schedule.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:43 pm

aarcoh wrote:Hey can someone from Brown email me at cohena5@rpi.edu or aarcoh@gmail.com to work out pricing for RPI. I've been trying to email Dennis but he doesn't seem to be replying.
Again, a general point: if you have financial difficulties, we will work with you. We would much rather you showed up and figured out how to settle things in the future than have lack of funding keep you out of the tournament.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:17 pm

What time will it start? Also, what building are we meeting in?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Lapego1 » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:34 pm

grapesmoker wrote:Again, a general point: if you have financial difficulties, we will work with you. We would much rather you showed up and figured out how to settle things in the future than have lack of funding keep you out of the tournament.
Don't suppose you have any sort of discount for "having to pay for a separate hotel room for the one girl on your team"? :wink:
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:39 pm

...Don't buy a separate hotel room for her? That sounds like a discount.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by fleurdelivre » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:40 pm

Deesy Does It wrote:...Don't buy a separate hotel room for her? That sounds like a discount.
Seriously, most of us can adapt to sharing living space with the boys for tournament weekends...
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by dtaylor4 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:02 am

Deesy Does It wrote:...Don't buy a separate hotel room for her? That sounds like a discount.
Or, if she is insistent on paying for her own room, she pays the difference between the cost of her room if she'd paid, and the cost of her own room.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by yoda4554 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:39 am

Ok, so the idea that's been floated is that I, Daniel Klein, and Zach Thomas would play as a Williams alumni exhibition team, if this is amenable to Brown (with room for any free agent who may show up).

Other important question that I'll post here--is anyone driving up from the NYC area with whom I could get a ride up Saturday (paying for my share of gas and all)? I've not heard back from the Hunter folk yet, and I don't immediately see anyone else on the list here--Katy, are you planning on heading in to moderate?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Lapego1 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:00 pm

Just wanted to confirm we're going to stick with two teams and a buzzer.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:01 pm

Harvard's FIVE TEAMS will be annihilating the competition. Except they were generated mostly randomly, with protection to make sure that, like, people knew history and stuff.

EDIT: don't think you can rest easy for that reason.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:27 pm

Field updated above. MIT, Cornell, Princeton, and anyone else unsure about the number of teams you''re bringing, please let us know as soon as possible.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:03 pm

yoda4554 wrote:Ok, so the idea that's been floated is that I, Daniel Klein, and Zach Thomas would play as a Williams alumni exhibition team, if this is amenable to Brown (with room for any free agent who may show up).
This will be fine if it fits the schedule and doesn't leave us short on staff. At the moment, I cannot honestly guarantee either of these things, so I don't want to promise you anything that we won't be able to deliver. Caveat and all that.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by olsb25 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:20 pm

I just e-mailed Dennis... but we are set for 2 teams.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by fleurdelivre » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:32 pm

yoda4554 wrote:Other important question that I'll post here--is anyone driving up from the NYC area with whom I could get a ride up Saturday (paying for my share of gas and all)? I've not heard back from the Hunter folk yet, and I don't immediately see anyone else on the list here--Katy, are you planning on heading in to moderate?
Sorry, sorry... no car and plans to be in Nashville instead. We'll have to plan a New York caravan for some other tournament. ACF Fall?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:14 am

Hey, RPI's can only bring one team on Saturday. I'm sorry if this causes any scheduling problems, but this was really out of my control.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Dartmouth College Bowl » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:33 am

Looks like we will be bringing 3 teams to EFT.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Lapego1 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:21 pm

aarcoh wrote:What time will it start? Also, what building are we meeting in?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:44 pm

The tournament will begin at 9:00 AM. Registration will kick off around 8:15 for early arrivals. We will be meeting in either 166 or 168 in Barus and Holley (these are two large auditoria that are right next to each other). If anyone is arriving by public transit from Boston and needs a ride from the train station, please let me know in advance and I'll come pick you up.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:46 pm

Is there a parking lot at the buidling or do we have to park somewhere else?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:49 pm

aarcoh wrote:Is there a parking lot at the buidling or do we have to park somewhere else?
There is a parking lot right in front of the building.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by smallpox » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:29 pm

Eh, it seems like the updated list left us (Amherst, 1 team) off. I'm pretty sure the organizers already know we're coming, but I want to make sure. A day trip to Providence would be loads of fun, but only with hours of quiz bowl thrown into the mix.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Dennis » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:05 am

I just sent an email to all teams (except Cornell, whose contact information I lack), and the gist of it is below:

Registration will take place between 8:15 and 8:45 AM on Saturday, October 4th in Barus and Holley 166. There is a possibility that this may change, though. We'd like to start at 9 AM and get you all home as soon as we can.

Penn (2 teams, 1 buzzer)
Princeton (2 teams, 0 buzzers?)
Amherst (1 team, 0 buzzers?)
Rutgers-NB (1 team, 1 buzzer)
RPI (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Williams (1 team, 0 buzzers?)
Hampshire (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Brandeis (1 team, 0 buzzers?)
Harvard (5 teams, 0 buzzers?)
Hunter (1 team, 0 buzzers?)
Dartmouth (3 teams, 0 buzzers?)
Yale (2 teams, 0 buzzers?)
Cornell (1-2 teams, 0 buzzers?)
MIT (2 teams, 0 buzzers?)

We may be short some buzzers and staffers, so please bring as many as you can so that we can avoid playing lots of rounds slap-bowl style and/or without a reader.

Please make checks out to Brown Quiz Bowl. As a reminder, the fee schedule is below unless previous discussed with me:

Base fee: $100
Buzzer discount: -$5 each
Staff discount: -$10 each
Travel discount: -$10 for every 200 miles traveled

A campus map can be found here: http://fm-cad.plantops.brown.edu/maps/P ... us_Map.pdf. Parking is free behind Barus and Holley.

There's a strong possibility that we cap the field at 24 teams, so please contact me as soon as possible with any pertinent information.
Dennis Jang
Brown Quiz Bowl

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Wall of Ham » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:17 am

Our email is cuquizbowl@gmail.com. We are probably sending two teams and two buzzers.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:08 am

Hey everyone, let me remind all attending that WE ABSOLUTELY NEED YOU TO BRING YOUR BUZZERS IF THIS IS AT ALL POSSIBLE. Unless you love slap-bowl, you'll want buzzers, and right now we don't have enough. I'm looking at you Boston-area teams, I know you have them, so please email Dennis or post here and let us know how many buzzers you will be bringing. If it's absolutely necessary, I can drive to Boston and get your buzzers from you the day before; I prefer not to have to do this and I see no reason why this would have to happen, but if it does, you should let me know.
Jerry Vinokurov
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Dartmouth College Bowl » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:32 am

We will bring our buzzer set.
Members of the Dartmouth Quizbowl Team, Dartmouth College

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:00 pm

Please take note of this important update!

Because of the unprecedented enthusiasm for this tournament, we are going to be forced to cap the field at 24 teams. What this means, effectively, is that Yale and Cornell are going to be restricted to one team each, in accordance with a "first-come first-served" allocation principle. If either of those clubs decides not to come, the other will be given the remaining spot.

Right now, we are looking at 3 brackets of 8 teams each, followed by 4 playoff brackets of 6 teams each, with an advantaged final if necessary. That gives everyone 12 rounds with no byes, and potentially 14 maximum rounds for two lucky teams.
Jerry Vinokurov
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Wall of Ham » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:42 pm

What? I think it is unfair to cap the field so close to the tournament date, especially since the annoucement of a possibility of a cap was only made yesterday. We have several freshman who are eager to play at EFT, and we've already notified them that we were sending them to EFT.

If it is a matter of rooms, there's no way around that. If it is a matter of staffing then I'll personally volunteer to help out. (1 person = 1 room = 2 teams)

If it is a matter of scheduling, then I see a problem with imposing an arbitrary team cap, especially since there is an even number of teams (26) that wants to come to this tournament. One possible solution is to have one bracket contain 10 teams instead of 8, and instead of having the full round robin, cut the last two games for the 10 sized bracket. Granted, each team won't play every team in that bracket, but neither does every team play against every team in the entire tournament, so W-L record is already completely arbitrary in a bracketing system.

Granted, we were one of the last to voice our commitment and will send only one team if Brown dictates it, but I think that if at all possible we and Yale should be able to send both our teams.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:33 pm

Barry, I understand your concerns; here are ours:

1) We are not certain to be able to get rooms in a larger building. We may, but then again we may not, and it seems like a poor thing to do to wait much longer until we know what's happening. Dennis has been working on this, so perhaps he can enlighten us, but last I checked there was no news on that front. Maybe this question will be rendered moot by a favorable development.

2) Staffing is a serious concern. We are seriously pressed for staff, and even if you volunteered to read, which would be most welcome, we may not have enough people to cover 26 teams and keep score.

3) I am opposed to brackets of varying sizes. I think that with bracketing, even though you don't get to play everyone, you do, in theory, get a chance to play a team of every level, since brackets are created on the basis of team strength. When you have a truncated bracket, you end up having teams miss out on playing a representative of some level of quality, which I think is bad.

4) Without gimmicky brackets, there is no way to chop up 26 into 3, so now you have to go 26 into 2 brackets of 13 each, which unfortunately burns a packet due to a bye. Since we only have 14 packets, that means we won't be able to do an advantaged final.

I'm open to changing my mind on these points, and any other suggestions for how to resolve this to everyone's benefit would obviously be welcome.

Obviously, some of this is our fault, in the sense that we failed to anticipate the increased demand for EFT and pretty much expected it to be about the size it was last year. We never seriously considered that 27 teams might try to show up to this tournament; in retrospect, we should have announced the field cap well in advance, but we fucked up and didn't do it, so I apologize for that. Still, we are not the first event to cap its field size, and I continue to think that this is the optimal solution from a scheduling and staffing perspective. I'm sorry that you are the team adversely affected by this and if we can find a way to make this work out, we will, but if we can't then I think this will be the default plan.
Jerry Vinokurov
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by yoda4554 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:22 pm

A few things: According to the most recent listing, I see a max of 25 (5 + 3 + 2(5) + 1(7)), yes? And that's including our little hybrid team thingie. If it's going to come down to people not getting to play, I'd offer to staff. I don't know quite if that would work out; I won't speak for the rest of my prospective team, but Klein's with you all anyway, Zach's probably going to play with MIT, and that leaves us finding a way to get Doug a team.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by Wall of Ham » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:16 pm

I don't expect our status will change or this will be implemented, but how about this as a schedule?

Put teams in 2 brackets and label them A-M. A1 plays A2 in the first round, B1-B2, etc. Next round: A1 plays B2, B1-C2....M1-A2. Third round A1-C2..etc. Keep powerhouses evenly spaced relative to their number as well as weak teams.

But the problem is not the field limit but the timing. Fortunately our club has procrastinated reserving a rental car and we are staying at a team member's house instead of a hotel but these might have been major problems. However, we have already promised people that they could come to this tournament whereas now, 3 days before the actual tournament, we have to inform them we can only send half of them.

Dave - Thanks for offering but we don't really expect you to disband your team for ours or anyone elses sake. The actual field is in Eric's post at the top I believe.
Barry
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: EFT 3 at Brown (Saturday, October 4)

Post by grapesmoker » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:55 pm

Wall of Ham wrote:But the problem is not the field limit but the timing. Fortunately our club has procrastinated reserving a rental car and we are staying at a team member's house instead of a hotel but these might have been major problems. However, we have already promised people that they could come to this tournament whereas now, 3 days before the actual tournament, we have to inform them we can only send half of them.
Again, I'm sorry about this. Like I said, it's our fault for not foreseeing this situation, and then a week before the fact, we went, "Oh shit, how are we going to do this?!" We'll try to work something out tonight to see if we can come up with a way of not kicking out one of your teams, but I can't promise anything.
Jerry Vinokurov
ex-LJHS, ex-Berkeley, ex-Brown, sorta-ex-CMU
code ape, loud voice, general nuissance

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