Whatever happened to spite
Whatever happened to spite
Spite used to be the lifeblood of quizbowl. Just searching now, there are all sorts of great threads extolling spite as a way of improving at the game and how tournament criticism used to be dominated by the "machinery of spite."
So in this thread I want to know (1) some great examples of spite-as-motivation from the days of yore and (2) some theories why there's so much less spite around in this decadent age of quizbowl.
So in this thread I want to know (1) some great examples of spite-as-motivation from the days of yore and (2) some theories why there's so much less spite around in this decadent age of quizbowl.
Michael Arnold
Chicago 2010
Columbia Law 2013
2009 ACF Nats Champion
2010 ICT Champion
2010 CULT Champion
Member of Mike Cheyne's Quizbowl All-Heel Team
Fundamental Theorem of Quizbowl (Revised): Almost no one is actually good at quizbowl.
Chicago 2010
Columbia Law 2013
2009 ACF Nats Champion
2010 ICT Champion
2010 CULT Champion
Member of Mike Cheyne's Quizbowl All-Heel Team
Fundamental Theorem of Quizbowl (Revised): Almost no one is actually good at quizbowl.
Re: Whatever happened to spite
I think spite is still around, it's just that people don't find it as kosher to talk about as explicitly. I don't think I would be controversial to say that any given team has an overriding desire to beat 1/3 of specific teams at tournaments out of spite. During the superplayoffs at ACF Nationals, I think there was only one team we played that I didn't want to beat out of spite.
I think I also became better at the game based on spite. When I started playing, Minnesota practices were very, very competitive--Andrew, Rob, Gautam, and Brendan were all there and Bernadette was pretty good too. The overriding desire to get in a few buzzes at practice makes you pay more attention to and learn more clues.
I think I also became better at the game based on spite. When I started playing, Minnesota practices were very, very competitive--Andrew, Rob, Gautam, and Brendan were all there and Bernadette was pretty good too. The overriding desire to get in a few buzzes at practice makes you pay more attention to and learn more clues.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
I think that, to Matt Weiner's great horror, the idea of civil discussion was hegemonic on HSQB for most of the mid-2000's. Indeed, around 2006-7 there was an almost hilarious dedication to self-deprecation, where almost every post that included feedback began with the author's denunciation of his own quizbowl abilities.
Things changed a bit with the rise of Minnesota (Andrew Hart in particular has always been either unapologetically egotistical, or very bad at hiding it), but it looks like current undergrads, especially Matt Bollinger, Matt Jackson, and Cody Voight, are bringing meanness in posting back. Maybe spite will come along with it.
Things changed a bit with the rise of Minnesota (Andrew Hart in particular has always been either unapologetically egotistical, or very bad at hiding it), but it looks like current undergrads, especially Matt Bollinger, Matt Jackson, and Cody Voight, are bringing meanness in posting back. Maybe spite will come along with it.
Bruce
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
The only reason I play quizbowl is to beat Mike Cheyne.
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
Re: Whatever happened to spite
You must not be enjoying quizbowl so far in your career.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
you are the super bowl i am john elwayCheynem wrote:You must not be enjoying quizbowl so far in your career.
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
Re: Whatever happened to spite
I guess I won't have to worry about you for another eight or so years then.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
:(
brb spitefully reading Darwin Among the Machines
brb spitefully reading Darwin Among the Machines
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
Re: Whatever happened to spite
You don't have to be spiteful to have a rivalry with somebody. You can even be friends with your rival.
But I think, historically speaking, the most effective manifestation of spite is when two teammates despise each other.
But I think, historically speaking, the most effective manifestation of spite is when two teammates despise each other.
Kyle Haddad-Fonda
Harvard '09
Oxford '13
Harvard '09
Oxford '13
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
I don't remember this at all...Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:I think that, to Matt Weiner's great horror, the idea of civil discussion was hegemonic on HSQB for most of the mid-2000's. Indeed, around 2006-7 there was an almost hilarious dedication to self-deprecation, where almost every post that included feedback began with the author's denunciation of his own quizbowl abilities.
Jerry Vinokurov
ex-LJHS, ex-Berkeley, ex-Brown, sorta-ex-CMU
presently: John Jay College Economics
code ape, loud voice, general nuissance
ex-LJHS, ex-Berkeley, ex-Brown, sorta-ex-CMU
presently: John Jay College Economics
code ape, loud voice, general nuissance
Re: Whatever happened to spite
Amusingly enough, Ryan Westbrook made some post back in '06 lamenting the great wasteland of dedicated up-and-coming quizbowlers (besides Will Turner and Dave Rappaport) that really pissed me off and helped motivate me to get better and show those terrible Midwest elitists.
Jonathan Magin
Montgomery Blair HS '04, University of Maryland '08
Editor: ACF
"noted difficulty controller"
Montgomery Blair HS '04, University of Maryland '08
Editor: ACF
"noted difficulty controller"
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
I'd like to think the members of the Brown team had this going.Kyle wrote:You don't have to be spiteful to have a rivalry with somebody. You can even be friends with your rival.
Eric Mukherjee, MD PhD
Brown 2009, Penn Med 2018
Instructor/Attending Physician/Postdoctoral Fellow, Vanderbilt University Medical Center
Coach, University School of Nashville
“The next generation will always surpass the previous one. It’s one of the never-ending cycles in life.”
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Brown 2009, Penn Med 2018
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Coach, University School of Nashville
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
I would endorse this view, and moreover, I think it explains the outcome of the Battle of Chaeronea.But I think, historically speaking, the most effective manifestation of spite is when two teammates despise each other.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
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Re: Whatever happened to spite
I'll say this, though the rest of you probably won't believe it:
When I first started playing collegiate quizbowl and people like Marnold threw around the word "spite" as though it was obvious what mindset that entailed and what sorts of behavior might be motivated by it, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HE MEANT. I literally had no clear idea what an internal monologue would sound like for a person animated by spite. Suffice it to say, that's no longer the case.
When I first started playing collegiate quizbowl and people like Marnold threw around the word "spite" as though it was obvious what mindset that entailed and what sorts of behavior might be motivated by it, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HE MEANT. I literally had no clear idea what an internal monologue would sound like for a person animated by spite. Suffice it to say, that's no longer the case.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: Whatever happened to spite
For no reason, I was thinking of this today (probably because I associate Marnold with Muttley), and it caused me to remember the one time where I was really motivated by spite.
in 2011, after Rob and Gautam graduated, someone (let's call him "B.S.") declared that while Andrew Hart was very good, he would have no supporting cast next year, so Carleton was now the top team in Minnesota. In effect, this was saying I was too terrible to fill Rob and Gautam's spot. While I am certainly a weaker player than those guys, this proved to be...not true. We beat Carleton by a lot every time we played them that year. In the three years the lead scorers were myself and Andrew (as well as other very fine players), Minnesota finished 6th and 5th at ICT, and 8th at Nats (Andrew played solo and got 12th the following year). We also took 4th at College History Bowl. Carleton did not. Even though B.S. was not from Carleton, my spite was mostly directed at them and Carsten, so this was very satisfying.
in 2011, after Rob and Gautam graduated, someone (let's call him "B.S.") declared that while Andrew Hart was very good, he would have no supporting cast next year, so Carleton was now the top team in Minnesota. In effect, this was saying I was too terrible to fill Rob and Gautam's spot. While I am certainly a weaker player than those guys, this proved to be...not true. We beat Carleton by a lot every time we played them that year. In the three years the lead scorers were myself and Andrew (as well as other very fine players), Minnesota finished 6th and 5th at ICT, and 8th at Nats (Andrew played solo and got 12th the following year). We also took 4th at College History Bowl. Carleton did not. Even though B.S. was not from Carleton, my spite was mostly directed at them and Carsten, so this was very satisfying.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger