The Quizbowl Resource Center

ihavenoidea wrote:Maybe this is a little early, but I don't see anyone from SoCal pulling a 9 - 1 prelim at HSNCT anytime soon.

Yea, I agree. part of the reason is probably due to SoCal's inability to develop a player capable of dominating HSNCT level lit. Fionaan from SaMo's 05-06 team was the closest we ever got. speaking of that team, they're still in my mind the gold standard of SoCal hs quizbowl. the current set of teams in the SoCal circuit this year also seems to be a little weaker than usual in science, then again I'm also still comparing what I saw last year with the old SaMo duo of Ben and Bennett

Sorry for that tangential comment, but perhaps the top teams in SoCal can come to some sort of informal agreement to send only Team B and C regulars to tournaments running A sets. Here's my rationale:
1) Is beating a team on an A set a legitimate indicator of quizbowl ability?
2) Ok, so assuming we have two top teams playing each other... what good is playing on a packet that will pretty much invite buzzer races on every question a la Science Bowl?
3) the clues in A sets have been getting ridiculously transparent at times. Even teams who obtain knowledge by osmosis have a reasonable chance beating a team that would probably destroy them on bonus conversion.

Even though I can't speak for the current situation in Arcadia, I'd imagine our coach will be somewhat hesitant attending ACF (or similar) tournaments.

It's also a nice surprise to see so many new posters from the circuit.

ntan wrote: Yea, I agree. part of the reason is probably due to SoCal's inability to develop a player capable of dominating HSNCT level lit. Fionaan from SaMo's 05-06 team was the closest we ever got. speaking of that team, they're still in my mind the gold standard of SoCal hs quizbowl. the current set of teams in the SoCal circuit this year also seems to be a little weaker than usual in science, then again I'm also still comparing what I saw last year with the old SaMo duo of Ben and Bennett

Sorry for that tangential comment, but perhaps the top teams in SoCal can come to some sort of informal agreement to send only Team B and C regulars to tournaments running A sets. Here's my rationale:
1) Is beating a team on an A set a legitimate indicator of quizbowl ability?
2) Ok, so assuming we have two top teams playing each other... what good is playing on a packet that will pretty much invite buzzer races on every question a la Science Bowl?
3) the clues in A sets have been getting ridiculously transparent at times. Even teams who obtain knowledge by osmosis have a reasonable chance beating a team that would probably destroy them on bonus conversion.

Even though I can't speak for the current situation in Arcadia, I'd imagine our coach will be somewhat hesitant attending ACF (or similar) tournaments.

It's also a nice surprise to see so many new posters from the circuit.

Neiman, I don't think it's the lit that's the problem. Anurag/Auroni have both surpassed HSNCT Lit. What I see is that we're not as good at current events, geography, math calculation. I also think that the circuit is not weaker in science. The science questions I saw at TWAIN were pretty rudimentary, and I'm sure Marino dominated that.

You have a good idea that in practice, won't really happen. I know that RB is sending somewhat of an A team to Caltech because we've yet to qualify for HSNCT yet. More teams like that will try to compete at A set tournaments. Anurag and I have vowed to not play a-sets after we qualify one team to HSNCT.

Tracy, perhaps you can convince Mr. Sylv to let Arcadia A come to ACF Fall?

Max, I swear a lot too...I think the Edison team thinks I'm crazy.

when and wheres ACF fall? and on that note, whats ACF? (like, whats the diff between ACF and NAQT?)

we get to see real rancho A at technophobia? unfortunately, real Arcadia A isnt going... >.>

oh, and zhao, i remember once, at UCI, when it was arcadia B vs your team, while we were both sitting out, you were going crazy cuz you already had all the answers xD
i think you were pretty close to swearing...

al3xWal3x wrote:and on that note, whats ACF? (like, whats the diff between ACF and NAQT?)

Consult QBWiki.

al3xWal3x wrote:when and wheres ACF fall? and on that note, whats ACF? (like, whats the diff between ACF and NAQT?)

we get to see real rancho A at technophobia? unfortunately, real Arcadia A isnt going... >.>

oh, and zhao, i remember once, at UCI, when it was arcadia B vs your team, while we were both sitting out, you were going crazy cuz you already had all the answers xD
i think you were pretty close to swearing...

ACF formatted questions are usually more academic with no math computation. They are also feature clue dense questions about 5 - 6 lines long. ACF Fall difficulty is comparable to HSNCT (though it's much more even and less erratic than HSNCT). ACF Fall is being held at UCI on Nov 8th.

You'll see Anurag. As I have a fever and an overprotective mom, I don't think I'll be going.

Oh yes...that was pretty disrespectful of me.

nah, not so much disrespectful as funny XDD

so is your fever the reason youre posting on the forum instead of doing schoolwork?

Neiman/Tracy/Alex/etc.-

If Mr. Sylvia's problem is that it's a college tournament, I completely understand that, and you should try to make the ACF-style high school tournaments at UCSD and Rancho Bernardo (plus, they're cheaper than what colleges have been charging for the NAQT tournaments). The trend in several places is that nationally competitive high schools are starting to play college tournaments if they're hungry to play and there's not a decent high school tournament in the area. If the problem is that the questions might be too hard, if any of the Arcadia contingent was at Zot Bowl, I guarantee that ACF Fall will be no harder than Zot Bowl and likely quite a bit easier.

I think the absolute craziest "I know this answer" behavior I've recently seen was from the Southwest coach - it was painfully apparent that he knew the answer, at least one of the players who was in knew the answer, and for some reason they were all too timid to buzz in. Maybe bringing 8+ players to the tournament on a single team and rotating practically everyone in and out had something to do with it.

In my mind the "gold standard" for SoCal quizbowl was the 2002 Los Al team that absolutely dominated pretty much everyone. I'd place the 2006 Santa Monica team right behind them; leaving various Edison, Capo Valley, and Sa Mo teams battling it out for top 5. And of course, there are the mid-90s teams that I know nothing about except that they apparently won a national or two. Other strong 2008 teams have to be up there as well.

cvdwightw wrote:

warpoet wrote:(BTW all interested teams should sign up for the Harvard Fall Tournament mirror at UCSD on Nov 15, the No Name Tournament mirror at RB on Nov 22, and if you still have money after registering for those and are interested in playing on three straight weekends, ACF Fall at UCI on Nov 8; I believe teams can play in all of these tournaments this year for less than $80/team).

Please do this. The thread for the UCSD mirror of Harvard Fall Tournament is here: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6382

also, spread the word to coaches if you can.. I'm a bit swamped by midterms and HSAPQ work to email coaches at the moment, but in the best case, something will be sent out tomorrow.

ill tell them, but frankly, im the team dumbass and i dont have much power...
just ask neiman and tracy

i dont know why sylvia doesnt like ACF...and until 10 am this morning, i didnt know what ACF was, but ill ask.

RB A won't be at full strength in Caltech due to the loss of Zhao. Alex, who on Arcadia's not going tomorrow? So it appears that the only team that will be at full strength is Santa Monica?

ak47 wrote:RB A won't be at full strength in Caltech due to the loss of Zhao. Alex, who on Arcadia's not going tomorrow? So it appears that the only team that will be at full strength is Santa Monica?

It appears so. Too bad, guys- I'd much rather fight to the death against your real A teams. Feel better, Zhao.

RB will do its best to put up a good fight against you guys.

ak47 wrote:RB will do its best to put up a good fight against you guys.

Bring it on, Spelling Boy (joking, I swear)

warpoet wrote:

ak47 wrote:RB will do its best to put up a good fight against you guys.

Bring it on, Spelling Boy (joking, I swear)

Bring it on, Science Bowl kids.

ihavenoidea wrote:

warpoet wrote:

ak47 wrote:RB will do its best to put up a good fight against you guys.

Bring it on, Spelling Boy (joking, I swear)

Bring it on, Science Bowl kids.

Screw that, I only play Quiz

Aww...you guys are cute. I'll enjoy seeing you tomorrow as well. =] Except Jacqueline and Derek and George will all be missing. Geez. I mean, Jacqueline is a section officer for FBLA so I understand that she can't make it, and George is in band, but Derek just slacked off on his apps so his mom won't let him go tomorrow. LOL. Sean and I have early deadlines, too, but we're both going--and Sean hasn't even gotten a single PS done yet. Hahah...=/

And I can ask about ACF. The Sylv doesn't really restrict what we go to as long as we tell him a week or two in advance and can find parents to drive or chaperone if he can't [or doesn't want to] go. I'll consult ACF with Jacqueline, though, and see how much left we have in the team funds. Ohhh we're gonna be brokeeeee...and then we can start selling candied apples. The return of Tracy the Huckster. =[

And Alex [Whale], no need to be SO self-deprecating.

tracyclee wrote:Aww...you guys are cute. I'll enjoy seeing you tomorrow as well. =] Except Jacqueline and Derek and George will all be missing. Geez. I mean, Jacqueline is a section officer for FBLA so I understand that she can't make it, and George is in band, but Derek just slacked off on his apps so his mom won't let him go tomorrow. LOL. Sean and I have early deadlines, too, but we're both going--and Sean hasn't even gotten a single PS done yet. Hahah...=/

And I can ask about ACF. The Sylv doesn't really restrict what we go to as long as we tell him a week or two in advance and can find parents to drive or chaperone if he can't [or doesn't want to] go. I'll consult ACF with Jacqueline, though, and see how much left we have in the team funds. Ohhh we're gonna be brokeeeee...and then we can start selling candied apples. The return of Tracy the Huckster. =[

And Alex [Whale], no need to be SO self-deprecating.

Post of the month at least.

what happened to [cow]? or [$40]?

man, caltechs isnt gonna be whos the best, but whos not the worst. edison cant go, rancho lost zhao, arcadia lost our three top scorers...
*sigh*

im against candied apples. i dont have enough money to pay for all the ones ill eat

tracyclee wrote:The Sylv doesn't really restrict what we go to as long as we tell him a week or two in advance and can find parents to drive or chaperone if he can't [or doesn't want to] go.

lol if you saw his reaction to the first time UCLA decided/attempted to host a PACE tournament, you'll share my views. anyway, I think that it's because he doesn't frequent a place like hsqb that other formats (which are arguably more academic) like PACE and ACF probably dont seem quite as legitimate as NAQT to him. Perhaps the new SoCal posters here could introduce their teams to these formats?

Zhao, i don't mean to underestimate the circuit's science ability; however, I still feel that based on what I saw last year and earlier this year, the top teams in the circuit may not quite have the speed to match SaMo's 05-06 team. I concede that my opinion may have been colored by a year of 590 - 30 massacres at their hands. I also acknowledge that for the most part, the teams SoCal will likely send to HSNCT this year are for the most part relatively well rounded but lacking speed (relative to the quizbowl powers on the east) out top teams should be able to post competive p/b numbers relative to the competition.

and what's all this talk about cursing and swearing? you guys haven't seen anything yet hahha the most ridiculous thing I've been a part of in quizbowl has to be the cigarette smoke incident at the 05-06 state champs at UCLA. the "wtf, you've got to be kidding me" look on painted on charles' face as he continued reading (at a pretty brisk clip I might add) was one of the most ridiculous/memorable moments ever.

according to justin, who was told this by ben...

the player from Santa Monica actually pulled the cigarette from his afro and started smoking it...
which was a violation of the building code, school rules, and probably federal law.

IMO, rankings for SoCal based on TWAIN and Technophobia (when all teams have all members)

T1 .Arcadia
T1. Rancho Bernardo
3. Santa Monica
*EDIT* 3.5) Edison
4. La Jolla
5. San Dieguito
6. Torrey Pines

although it looks like im biased for Arcadia, we got first place at TWAIN and went undefeated. Although we were fourth at Technophobia, our 2/3 of our top players werent able to go.
Rancho Bernardo wasn't at full power at TWAIN, or Technophobia, but they still placed third and second in both, respectively.
head to head, arcadia and SaMo are 1-1, but the time we lost was at Technophobia, and 2/3 werent there.
at technophobia, rancho and SaMo were 1-1, but rancho was missing zhao.

feel free to criticize, just please dont be a douche about it.

Alex, RB went for 5th place at TWAIN I believe

ok, so all facts may not have been fully checked
however, you guys were still crazy at caltech

Standings from CalTech (that I know for sure, no offense meant to teams not posted):

1. Santa Monica A
2. Rancho Bernardo A
3. La Jolla A
4. Arcadia A

...Arcadia A was missing three top players? That might explain why LJ A was actually able to beat you guys at Technophobia. >_>;;; Damn! I thought we actually got better!

Still, we actually beat Santa Monica as well. I'm happy. It doesn't say much for standings though...we're kinda inconsistent, both with who's actually on Team A and which schools we win/lose against. Still, I think the fact that we hijacked two players from Team B and still got third place is a good indicator of the potential of our team. We just have to train harder in the future and try not to make stupid negs (all my fault. D:).

-Kai

We really only had one real team A member, due to FBLA and college apps.
Most of the team B people went to team A, except for one that had band, so our team B was also weaker than usual.

La Jolla's a legitamate contender for winning a tournament. ANY of the four top teams from the bracket that had SaMo A, Rancho A, La Jolla A, and San Dieguito could have swept the other bracket at Technophobia, and i believe even Arcadia B (my team), who didn't make the higher bracket, could have done so in the other division.

Oh, and (having never seen them compete), how good is North Hollywood? I don't remember them going to tournaments, nor doing so well in one.

I would rank La Jolla above Edison. I believe Edison lost to them at TWAIN?

al3xWal3x wrote:Oh, and (having never seen them compete), how good is North Hollywood? I don't remember them going to tournaments, nor doing so well in one.

NoHo is a sci bowl and sci oly powerhouse, but they haven't dabbled in quizbowl for a long long while. same goes for troy. the differences in NSB format and NAQT/Pyramidal questions is great enough that I'd imagine even a school like NoHo may have initial problems adapting

I've never seen Edison play, but they didn't make the top bracket at TWAIN. At this point it doesn't really matter, as they're already qualified for nationals (even if it was at a weak tournament)

ntan wrote:and what's all this talk about cursing and swearing? you guys haven't seen anything yet hahha the most ridiculous thing I've been a part of in quizbowl has to be the cigarette smoke incident at the 05-06 state champs at UCLA. the "wtf, you've got to be kidding me" look on painted on charles' face as he continued reading (at a pretty brisk clip I might add) was one of the most ridiculous/memorable moments ever.

The best part of this was that the whole incident was blamed on a freshman moderator who, I guess, wasn't even involved in the game, but somehow that player had misconstrued that moderator's response to "Can I smoke in here?" as "Yes".

This post is also known as: Even Neiman Tan, fresh off the high school circuit, has a Meigs story.

From experience, I would say that La Jolla would beat Edison in a match, seeing as how they thoroughly trounced us after catching up 175 points, too.

And playing NoHo was kind of hilarious. They were obviously used to the SB/OSB format, because they kept raising the buzzers for recognition. Even better was that the buzzers we were using were Quiz-a-Matics...so there aren't even any lights on them. So awkward. The mod kept telling them he wasn't going to look at them for recognition, but it was too difficult a transition. And one of them was wearing blue scrubs under a coat and hat. Anyhow, they were good at science, but kind of lacking in other areas.


On another note, exactly how much would it cost us to send 1 team to ACF, if theoretically I could get The Sylv to go for it?

Hey Dwight, how did UCLA go?

Oh right, La Jolla is definitely stronger than Edison. Edison lost a lot of power this year, but they always lose a lot and are somehow, still competitive.

So far, how many teams have qualified for Nationals?
Arcadia from TWAIN
Edison and San Dieguito from CBCT
Santa Monica, Rancho Bernardo, and La Jolla(?) from Technophobia

anyone else that I missed?

We are using the official ACF Fee Structure
Base fee: $120 per team
Buzzer system: -$5/buzzer, no limit
Staffer: -$10/staffer, no limit
Laptop: -$10 (one per team)
Distance: -$10 per 200 miles one-way (this means Bay Area teams get a discount of at least $10, I'll have to check if any of you meet the $20 discount level)
International: -$20 (come on, Mexican quizbowl teams, you know you want to come)
New ACF team: -$25
New quizbowl team: -$75 (UCSD, I believe you just barely qualify for both of these discounts)
Shorthanded team: -$60 or -$80, please see the official ACF Packet and Fee Information to see if you qualify for this discount

So since Arcadia is new to both ACF and to college quizbowl, you meet both the -$25 and -$75 discount. So then the fee is $20. Bring a laptop, -$10. $10. Bring two buzzers: -$10. You get to come to ACF Fall for free! Good deal, yeah?

We wouldnt have to write a packet for ACF, right?

No you wouldn't need to write one, but if you do you will get more discounts.

al3xWal3x wrote:IMO, rankings for SoCal based on TWAIN and Technophobia (when all teams have all members)

T1 .Arcadia
T1. Rancho Bernardo
3. Santa Monica
*EDIT* 3.5) Edison
4. La Jolla
5. San Dieguito
6. Torrey Pines

although it looks like im biased for Arcadia, we got first place at TWAIN and went undefeated. Although we were fourth at Technophobia, our 2/3 of our top players werent able to go.
Rancho Bernardo wasn't at full power at TWAIN, or Technophobia, but they still placed third and second in both, respectively.
head to head, arcadia and SaMo are 1-1, but the time we lost was at Technophobia, and 2/3 werent there.
at technophobia, rancho and SaMo were 1-1, but rancho was missing zhao.

feel free to criticize, just please dont be a douche about it.

My views (assuming all teams are at full strength):

1. Rancho Bernardo (by far)
2. Arcadia (just barely ahead of...)
3. SAMO
4. La Jolla
5. Edison (haven't seen them, but I haven't heard anything that makes me believe they can compete with the 4 above)
6. San Dieguito (just makes me smile a bit inside)

warpoet wrote:

al3xWal3x wrote:IMO, rankings for SoCal based on TWAIN and Technophobia (when all teams have all members)

T1 .Arcadia
T1. Rancho Bernardo
3. Santa Monica
*EDIT* 3.5) Edison
4. La Jolla
5. San Dieguito
6. Torrey Pines

although it looks like im biased for Arcadia, we got first place at TWAIN and went undefeated. Although we were fourth at Technophobia, our 2/3 of our top players werent able to go.
Rancho Bernardo wasn't at full power at TWAIN, or Technophobia, but they still placed third and second in both, respectively.
head to head, arcadia and SaMo are 1-1, but the time we lost was at Technophobia, and 2/3 werent there.
at technophobia, rancho and SaMo were 1-1, but rancho was missing zhao.

feel free to criticize, just please dont be a douche about it.

My views (assuming all teams are at full strength):

1. Rancho Bernardo (by far)
2. Arcadia (just barely ahead of...)
3. SAMO
4. La Jolla
5. Edison (haven't seen them, but I haven't heard anything that makes me believe they can compete with the 4 above)
6. San Dieguito (just makes me smile a bit inside)

Zhao and Anurag (apparantly) overlap a lot, so adding Zhao in there wouldnt increase their strength by much (no offense), it would just make their team B godlier.

And Edison was at TWAIN, and didn't do as well as you guys (SaMo and Rancho).

Prediction: This year's gonna be a three way fight between Arcadia, SaMo, and Rancho for top spots at tourneys,
and Arcadia B, Rancho B, Torrey Pines, Edison, La Jolla, and San Dieguito for the next few spots.

al3xWal3x wrote:And Edison was at TWAIN, and didn't do as well as you guys (SaMo and Rancho).

I know they were there, but we didn't play them. But I guess they must have lost to Arcadia, Rancho and La Jolla

Yes! I'm unbanned! D:

...I don't know what it is with us and San Dieguito, actually. We trounced them at TWAIN, but lost to them twice at Technophobia, once by a single tossup and once by ~120 points. In our own defense, I'd like to say that the second loss was because the moderator read horribly slowly and paused after EVERYTHING, so we never had time to catch up. Still, we're both really inconsistent...or SD's just better than us. D:

LJ also managed to beat SaMo, but if the game had gone on longer they would have came back and pwnt us. So I generally agree with the other rankings.

1. Rancho Bernardo (But I still need to see Zhao and Anurag at the same tournament for once.)
2. Arcadia A (at full strength, mind you)
3. Santa Monica
4. La Jolla
5. San Dieguito
6. Torrey Pines (I'm somewhat biased, because they beat us at TWAIN - but then seemed to lose to a whole bunch of other people. I dunno. WE NEED TWAIN STATS NAO KTHNKX.)
7. Edison (We only played them at TWAIN, though, and they weren't extremely impressive.)

-Kai

Kaisuopai wrote: . . . But I still need to see Zhao and Anurag at the same tournament for once . . .

Yes yes, I promise this will happen before HSNCT.

ihavenoidea wrote:

Kaisuopai wrote: . . . But I still need to see Zhao and Anurag at the same tournament for once . . .

Yes yes, I promise this will happen before HSNCT.

Better knock on wood

stats from TWAIN are up
http://quizbowl.bol.ucla.edu/results/TW ... dings.html

So, three weeks go by, then Dwight goes to UCLA, and the stats come up 2 days later.

Dwight, you are godly.


*edit*
Questions (using Zhao as an example, as he's the highest scorer):
How does Zhao have 21.22 points/tossup-heard? im pretty sure thats a new NAQT record...
and how does PPG and P/TU differ, i.e. Kate Albey/Derek being 5th on P/TU but second in PPG?
and how does Zhao's 11 Games Played translate into 41 tossups heard. 4.1 tossups per game is also probably a new NAQT record...

*edit #2*
Reason for error found.
TUH for every game is 0 for every game other than the 7th, 9th, 11th, and 12th

Heyyy! Stats! And snaps for Dwight, who I suspect without whom this would not be possible.

Does anyone know if USC is doing Trojan Wars this year? It's usually the first Saturday of December, but I guess it hasn't been announced yet? Weird...!!

tracyclee wrote:Does anyone know if USC is doing Trojan Wars this year? It's usually the first Saturday of December, but I guess it hasn't been announced yet? Weird...!!

Both of the people in charge of USC's club have moved on. I'm not sure what dedicated people are left. I'll see if I can find out.

Also, I probably could have mentioned it to the person in charge of uploading stuff to the website rather than the TD, and stats would have been up a week ago. I'm not so all-powerful as you think.

Those TWAIN stats don't really tell me much except that La Jolla, San Dieguito, and Santa Monica really are legit, but there's all sorts of double counted and not-counted games and how the heck Edison ended up 4-6 with the third best bonus conversion in the tournament baffles me.

cvdwightw wrote:Those TWAIN stats don't really tell me much except that La Jolla, San Dieguito, and Santa Monica really are legit, but there's all sorts of double counted and not-counted games and how the heck Edison ended up 4-6 with the third best bonus conversion in the tournament baffles me.

The inexplicable forfeit loss to Rancho Bernardo D might have something to do with that. What in the world happened at this tournament?

NOBODY KNOWS

again, please sign up for UCSD's tournament on the 15th. I'm going to go send out more emails soon

Edison played prelims, decided that since they didn't qualify for the top bracket to leave in the middle/before play offs.

Ukonvasara wrote:

cvdwightw wrote:Those TWAIN stats don't really tell me much except that La Jolla, San Dieguito, and Santa Monica really are legit, but there's all sorts of double counted and not-counted games and how the heck Edison ended up 4-6 with the third best bonus conversion in the tournament baffles me.

The inexplicable forfeit loss to Rancho Bernardo D might have something to do with that. What in the world happened at this tournament?

Gong was on Rancho D, right?

ihavenoidea wrote:Edison played prelims, decided that since they didn't qualify for the top bracket to leave in the middle/before play offs.

Stop doing this, people!

al3xWal3x wrote:

Ukonvasara wrote:

cvdwightw wrote:Those TWAIN stats don't really tell me much except that La Jolla, San Dieguito, and Santa Monica really are legit, but there's all sorts of double counted and not-counted games and how the heck Edison ended up 4-6 with the third best bonus conversion in the tournament baffles me.

The inexplicable forfeit loss to Rancho Bernardo D might have something to do with that. What in the world happened at this tournament?

Gong was on Rancho D, right?

Yes