Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:25 pm

Bad Boy Bill wrote: We have at least three buzzer systems should you need them.
We do. Thanks!
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:18 pm

Allow me to scramble the brackets some more---isn't this fun---and add another team---our 3rd--- from Saint Joe's.

Also, I am pretty sure we will be able to bring a 2nd buzzer system. I'll let you know by the middle of next week for sure.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:09 pm

St. Joseph's third team and Preston HS's registration bring us up to 23 teams. There is one more spot left in the field. Please register as soon as possible if you would like that spot!

(edit: grammar)
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by johnsona » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:11 pm

In reference to the format (noting that my team won't be in attendance, but has gone to other northeast events) our team has found just taking the top 2 teams out of a bracket for the top 6 has never worked well for us. We have always been put in a bracket that had 2 definitely dominant teams. We may have been the 3rd best in our bracket, but were better than some of the 2nd place spots in other brackets.

What about having your 3 prelim. brackets of 7 and taking the top 2 plus 2 at large to complete an 8 team Championship bracket? Then fill in with the next 8 and the next 5 as you had mentioned. I know there is no absolute perfect way to do it, otherwise I would write a book that could become a best-seller in the quiz bowl realm.

Happy Bracketing!!
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:25 pm

Welcome to Preston. Is this the Preston from the Bronx, or one of the many Prestons from out of state?
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:29 pm

johnsona wrote:What about having your 3 prelim. brackets of 7 and taking the top 2 plus 2 at large to complete an 8 team Championship bracket? Then fill in with the next 8 and the next 5 as you had mentioned. I know there is no absolute perfect way to do it, otherwise I would write a book that could become a best-seller in the quiz bowl realm.
That would work if we had more packets. We have 11 packets, and after a 7-round prelim round robin, we'd only have 4 left. I don't think it's possible to play off 8 teams with only 4 packets.

Now that we have 23 teams, though, if we don't hit 24 in the next week or so, we'll just use a hybrid alternate team to fill it out to 24.
Edward Powers wrote:Is this the Preston from the Bronx, or one of the many Prestons from out of state?
It's Preston from the Bronx.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Nick » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:20 am

With 24 teams- the tournament format will be 4 prelim pools of 6 (5 games) followed by 3 playoff pools of 8 where a team plays all the teams in their pool they have not yet played (6 games)? If so, and you only have 11 packets, what will happen if there is a tie for first after these 11 games?
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:14 pm

I believe by 11 packets Lily means 11 after you take away packets for finals.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Nick » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:29 pm

ah, that makes sense. I knew there had to be something I was missing.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:53 am

We're back down to 21 teams.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:37 pm

Hey everyone,

The tournament is happening this weekend and we'd really like to get up to 24 teams. Can anyone bring an extra team (or register one if you haven't already)? If the cost is prohibitive, contact me (lilychen3.14159@gmail.com) and we can work something out.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Howard » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:20 pm

There's a very outside chance we can do this. I was busy with other things last week and didn't remember to push the issue with the team. Two people at today's practice that indicated interest, and I've e-mailed those I haven't yet seen.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:08 am

Howard wrote:There's a very outside chance we can do this. I was busy with other things last week and didn't remember to push the issue with the team. Two people at today's practice that indicated interest, and I've e-mailed those I haven't yet seen.
Awesome! Let me know as soon as possible.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:47 pm

Lily,

I will be able to bring a 2nd buzzer system.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:59 pm

Edward Powers wrote:I will be able to bring a 2nd buzzer system.
Thanks!

We have 22 teams now. Hopefully the field will not decrease any further. If you would still like to register, registration is still open!
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Howard » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:24 pm

lchen wrote:
Howard wrote:There's a very outside chance we can do this. I was busy with other things last week and didn't remember to push the issue with the team. Two people at today's practice that indicated interest, and I've e-mailed those I haven't yet seen.
Awesome! Let me know as soon as possible.
Sorry if I got your hopes up. We wound up being stuck at two people, and I'm just not ready for 7 hours of driving for a two-person team. I didn't push the issue, but I suspect there would also have been little interest with the two people in question for playing as a team of two.

Hope everything goes well and that you get another two teams.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:56 pm

Howard wrote:
lchen wrote:
Howard wrote:There's a very outside chance we can do this. I was busy with other things last week and didn't remember to push the issue with the team. Two people at today's practice that indicated interest, and I've e-mailed those I haven't yet seen.
Awesome! Let me know as soon as possible.
Sorry if I got your hopes up. We wound up being stuck at two people, and I'm just not ready for 7 hours of driving for a two-person team. I didn't push the issue, but I suspect there would also have been little interest with the two people in question for playing as a team of two.

Hope everything goes well and that you get another two teams.
Thanks for letting me know. That's okay. Hopefully you can attend the mirror at VCU!
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by btressler » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:36 am

We've just been warned that snow is coming our way Friday. :roll:
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:51 am

Bad Boy Bill wrote:We've just been warned that snow is coming our way Friday. :roll:
Thursday, more likely. It may be clear by Saturday, but roads to the north will be very very bad.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Kouign Amann » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:18 pm

Hey, so apparently we need an invoice in advance if the school is going to send us up to this with a check. Could you please send our coach an email at henzel[at]saintanselms[dot]org detailing how much we'll have to pay so that she can send that over to the business office? Also, do we get some kind of travel discount?

Thanks
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:41 pm

I really don't see this tournament (or anything this weekend) happening. :sad:

http://www.accuweather.com/video-on-dem ... nformation
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:12 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:I really don't see this tournament (or anything this weekend) happening. :sad:

http://www.accuweather.com/video-on-dem ... nformation
...

...

...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

/remembers rule about cursing in high school section


In all serious, this really, really sucks for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is that we've already bought train tickets and Dorman and LASA, presumably, have already bought plane tickets. Hopefully this storm is just hyped up, but...ugh.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by youngster68 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:24 pm

I don't want to jinx anything here...but here's the current word.

I just spoke with one of our Vice Principals, and she informs me that in addition to Prison Bowl, there are two other major events taking place in our building on Saturday. She is confident that the building will remain open on Saturday. This is clearly not a storm to be taken lightly, and there is a good chance that we will have a rare second snow-day of the year on Friday, but our official position right now is...<draws imaginary line in imaginary sand>

Prison Bowl III is ON!

That said, travelling to NYC on Friday night is certain to be a bit arduous. We will be here, we certainly hope you will be here, we will do everything we can to help you get here and be comfortable when you get here, and we certainly understand if you cannot make it. But heroic efforts to arrive will be rewarded with some juicy quiz bowl.

Also, we are making a large order of pizzas for our staff on Saturday. Given that leaving the building for lunch will probably be a bit rough, we will be happy to add to our order for you. Pizzas are $12 for a large pie with 8 slices. We'll have some soda on hand as well.

Thanks!
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by kayli » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:33 pm

Holy crap. Hurricane? Snow? Add 160mph winds, and that's worse than anything I've ever seen.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:41 pm

That story says that NYC itself will only (heh) get 6-12 inches, so we still have a chance if they clear off the roads by Saturday. Hopefully this doesn't mess with Dorman and LASA's flights--it would be a real shame if this tournament were canceled.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:49 pm

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=NYZ072

It seems that snow will be coming down gradually over the next few days, with enough time to clear it in some areas of Manhattan. We'll keep an eye on this, but it's not like Snowmageddon 2.0 or anything.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:17 pm

youngster68 wrote: That said, travelling to NYC on Friday night is certain to be a bit arduous. We will be here, we certainly hope you will be here, we will do everything we can to help you get here and be comfortable when you get here, and we certainly understand if you cannot make it. But heroic efforts to arrive will be rewarded with some juicy quiz bowl.
Right. An outright cancellation is unlikely, but it's understandable if some teams are forced to drop out due to the weather. We will make sure this tournament runs with however many teams can get here.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Eric Huff » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:28 pm

We're definitely coming, and we look forward to playing whatever teams are able to make it.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Cassian » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:10 am

We're coming too unless something funky happens and our flights get canceled outright. We're supposed to get in at noon on Friday, so even with massive delays, we would make it for Saturday morning.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:18 pm

State College pulled out due to the weather, so we're back down to 20 teams.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by btressler » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:28 pm

I'm sorry to say that we're going to stay home as well.

Best of luck to anyone who is able to make it.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Eric Huff » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:17 pm

Sorry to see State College & Charter drop. We made it into the city and look forward to playing whichever teams are able to make it tomorrow.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:34 pm

Because there are 18 teams now, the tournament format will be the following:

3 preliminary brackets of 6 teams will play a 5-round round robin. In the playoffs, the championship bracket will consist of the top 2 teams from each prelim bracket, plus the top 2 teams overall that weren't in the top two in their bracket. The rest of the teams will be split into two brackets of 5 teams. The championship bracket will play 6 rounds of (pseudo-)crossover games. The other two brackets will play a 5-round round robin, then get reseeded for the last round of playoffs. ACF-style finals for the championship bracket will follow if necessary.

Does this look okay to everyone?
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Rountree » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:13 pm

Why would you put 8 teams in the championship bracket (the top 2 from 3 prelim brackets + the next top 2 teams) and then not have all of them play each other in the playoffs (which would be a 7 game round-robin). It seems like having the championship bracket play 6 games instead of 7, and, thus, not be a true round-robin kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a "championship bracket", but maybe that's just me? Or, perhaps I am misreading what you wrote.

You could just re-bracket after the prelims with the top 6, the next 6, and the final 6, and use your remaining packet(s) to break any ties (if necessary) after the playoff round-robins were over. That still guarantees every team at least 10 games.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:18 pm

RountreeCHS wrote:Why would you put 8 teams in the championship bracket (the top 2 from 3 prelim brackets + the next top 2 teams) and then not have all of them play each other in the playoffs (which would be a 7 game round-robin). It seems like having the championship bracket play 6 games instead of 7, and, thus, not be a true round-robin kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a "championship bracket", but maybe that's just me? Or, perhaps I am misreading what you wrote.

You could just re-bracket after the prelims with the top 6, the next 6, and the final 6, and use your remaining packet(s) to break any ties (if necessary) after the playoff round-robins were over. That still guarantees every team at least 10 games.
I think the intention is to keep as many teams in championship contention as possible? The crossover doesn't make it any less a championship bracket (or any less a round robin); it just means that the game from the prelims against the other team to make it to the championship bracket from your bracket actually counted.

Also, your method would require seven plus five packets, plus two for finals and one for tiebreakers. Do they have that many?
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Despite the weather, I tried as hard as I possibly could to get us to this, and made sure to line up our travel plans for this evening, but late today I received word from school administrators that we will not be allowed to travel to this tournament. As such, we must - very regrettably - withdraw our teams.

Apologies for having to let you know on such late notice.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by cvdwightw » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:52 pm

RountreeCHS wrote:Why would you put 8 teams in the championship bracket (the top 2 from 3 prelim brackets + the next top 2 teams) and then not have all of them play each other in the playoffs (which would be a 7 game round-robin)
Packet constraints.

Code: Select all

A1,B2	C1,B3	B1,A2	C2,A3
A2,B3	B1,A3	C1,B2	A1,C2
A1,B3	B1,C2	C1,A3	A2,B2
B1,C1	B2,A3	C2,B3	
C1,A2	B2,C2	A1,B1	
A2,C2	A1,C1	A3,B3	
Where A and B are the brackets whose third-place teams are wild cards; records against every team coming from your prelim bracket carry over but you don't play them again in the playoffs. Every team gets 10 or 11 matches plus finals. If they had one more packet they could do what you suggest (seven-game round robin, throw out prelim records), but they don't and I don't think they're going to try to write one last-minute.

Things get hairier if the prelim brackets are so imbalanced that both wild cards come from the same bracket.

Seventeen you can do like this, just chop one game off one prelim bracket. Sixteen becomes really easy - two brackets of eight and then top 4 - bottom 4 crossover matches gives you 11 rounds for each team plus finals; fifteen you do the same way except some teams are only guaranteed 10 matches; fourteen same way except bottom bracket teams are now guaranteed only 9 matches in 10 rounds. Hopefully last minute drops and no-shows don't bring the field lower than that.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:20 pm

Thanks, Dwight! That was exactly the intention. Sorry, I should have clarified. We have 11 packets, plus 2 for finals and 1 for tiebreakers. But now that we're down to 16 we'll probably do this
cvdwightw wrote:Sixteen becomes really easy - two brackets of eight and then top 4 - bottom 4 crossover matches gives you 11 rounds for each team plus finals
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:09 pm

Lily,

We know you will figure out the bracketing issues and run an excellent tournament.

In the meantime, welcome to our friends from Dorman---glad you could make it safely. Hopefully all the remaining teams will do likewise and we will have a rousing competition tomorrow. And to our friends who could not make it---we know you wish you could be here, but we are sure you will be with us in spirit---and maybe we will see some or all of you at nationals, if not sooner.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:26 pm

Hey,
We're here in New York, so we'll definitely be there tomorrow. I'm a little disappointed that teams have had to drop, but I'm still excited to play teams that we wouldn't ordinarily play until Nationals. Should be awesome.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Cassian » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:45 pm

We're in the city too. I'm standing in the lobby of MoMA waiting for the guys right now, and I think we saw Dorman earlier. We had a little weather delay but nothing major. We'll see everyone tomorrow.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:47 pm

Well, Stuyvesant's just pulled out, so we're down to 13 teams now. Anyone have alternates to bring for a hybrid scab team? If we get down to 12 or 11 teams, we may just do a 11-round round robin, tiebreakers, then take the top two teams for finals. I'm really sorry it had to come to this. Rescheduling the tournament was not an option; we had to book the rooms in August.

Thank you so much to everyone who's still coming! See you tomorrow!
Lily Chen
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Cassian » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:49 pm

Lily and everyone -

We did bring a fifth player, and Aaron is willing to play on a scab team if there are others available to play with him. We can sort it out in the morning, but I wanted to put it out there for the consideration of those attending.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:47 am

The tournament started on time and we're finishing up round 2 now. Stats can be found here: http://www.taftqb.com/t/prison2010/teams/standings/

Edit: Those stats are incomplete. The correct stats have been linked further downthread.
Last edited by lchen on Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:53 pm

After 5 rounds, Dorman and LASA are undefeated (tied with a 4-0 record and 501.25 PPG). Top scorers: Matt Bollinger (St. Anselm's), Aaron from LASA (Hybrid team), Aaron Knowlson (St. Joseph A), Amber Lamps (Bergen A), Jason Golfinos (Trinity).
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:25 pm

stats wrote:LASA 5 0 0 1.00 500.00 172.00 328.00 67 10 100 25.00 500.00 67 1880 28.06
Wow.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Sir Thopas » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:28 pm

Preston (location: the Bronx) pulled out at the beginning of the 100-minute (!) lunch break. Eric Douglass: continues to be empirically true.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:31 pm

Hey, for anyone who's following along at home: we've run into a problem with the stats program, so part of the playoff stats are being done on paper. The "Team Standings" on Taft don't exactly match the actual playoff team standings. Hopefully once the tournament is over we'll be able to sort things out.
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by etchdulac » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:34 pm

Thanks for the update; was wondering about the placement of St. Joseph C. Will the scoreboard page continue to update?
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Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Sir Thopas » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:03 pm

lchen wrote:a problem with the stats program
An inherent problem with taft, that is; not a malfunction. Finish your programs, Evan Silberman.
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